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In Balkans we have?

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  Quote Ellin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: In Balkans we have?
    Posted: 18-Dec-2006 at 03:07
I just skimmed over this thread so apologies if I am repeating things said already.

For those who like to disassociate the modern Greeks from their ancient forebearers, here's a little something to quash your 'wishful thinking' and anti-Hellenism..

But before I go on, there's this one, quite semantic and predominant tradition we have, whereby all offspring are named after paternal and/or maternal grandparents.

A tradition that dates back to even the pre-Christian era, ie antiquity.
Now if we, the Greeks, have Archaic names that are prevalent in our ethnicity or community, names like,

Alexander, Antigone, Andromahe, Andreas, Achilea, Akakios, Anatoli, Androniki, Aphrodite, Argyros/Argyri, Aristotle, Arsenios, Aspasia, Chrysanthe, Cleopatra/Patra, Corinna, Demetrios/Demetria, Demosthenes, Diogenes, Dionysios, Eirene/Irene, Electra, Epaminontas, Eudokia, Eudoxia, Eustathios, Euthimios, Georgeos, Helen, Hercules, Hypatia, Ismini, Kyriakos, Leonidas, Nike/Nicky, Nikodemos, Nikolaos/Nick, Olympia, Pelagia, Pericles, Petra, Phillip, Photios/Photini, Plato/Platon, Pyrhos, Socrates, Sophia, Sophocles, Sophronios, Stephanos, Straton, Themistocles, Theodora/Theodore, Theodosius, Timotheus, Xenophon, Zoe. etc etc etc

and since these names weren't plucked out of thin air or from our posteriors, what does that go tell you about our racial lineage??

99% of that list is derived from people I personally know, let alone others not mentioned, and I'm sure the same applies for others, so goes to show you the extent of it all.


Greeks were and are a very proud bunch (not in the negative sense),
but they had strong ideals when it came down to preserving race, faith, culture etc.  And that doesn't mean they were 'racist' either or racial supremists.  Our history confirms our acceptance and tolerance of other people or nations, esp when there were no provocations.

The Greeks weren't even fond of or receptive to "(Greek) tribal-intermarriages", at first, let alone all this supposed racial intermarriages, which was generally seen as tabu.

Wasn't the purpose behind some of the Ionian trans-continental migrations due to the Dorians, and not wanting to mix with them, ie another Greek 'tribe', because they saw themselves as culturally superior?

Some nations are more homogenous than others.. I don't see why
some people have a problem with this.  Some people use their own country, which 'was' and 'is' subject to/more prone to racial admixing (and that's fine btw), as a yardstick and think this is the case for all countries.  I don't think you can put everyone in the same basket.


Here's some excerpts supporting Greece's relative homogeneity.


Until the early 1990s, Greece had been an extremely
homogenous society
, but with the collapse of communist
regimes in Eastern Europe it suddenly experienced big influxes
of immigrants, particularly from Albania.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4101469.stm

Greece is the most homogeneous country in Europe and
one of the most homogenous countries in the world, with an
almost 97% majority of citizens sharing the same national
identity, religion (Greek Orthodox Christians), language
and race
. but there is also a 1.3% Muslim minority which
lives mainly along the borders with Turkey), This means that
there are no great social and political disturbances (especially
since the restoration of democracy in 1974) or other similar
problems. Greek society is very coherent and the Greek family,
a basic social institution, seems strong enough to support its
members even at the most difficult times. As a result, the high
rate of unemployment does not spawn problems like
homelessness or a high criminality rate.

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/world/greececor3.htm

Greece is the most ethnically homogeneous country
in the Balkans,with ethnic Greeks making up more than
95 percent of the population

(not accounting for illegal immigrants).
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761572872_3/Greece.html

GREEK SOCIETY HAS DEVELOPED over a period of nearly
3,000 years, with only few interruptions, in a physical and
geographical environment that contributed unique qualities
and facilitated widespread dissemination of the elements
of its civilization.
Despite centuries of occupation by
Roman and Ottoman empires, the Greeks maintained an
unusually homogenous ethnicity
that today includes
only very small minorities.
Greece's ethnicity is reflected in the 97 percent of Greeks
professing membership in the nation's established church,
the Orthodox Church of Greece.

http://www.photius.com/countries/greece/society/greece_society_society_and_its_envi~8344.html

Angel studied skeletal material from the Paleolithic to modern times, and participated in examinations of skeletal material throughout the East Mediterranean. With respect to Greece, he found that the morphological types already established in the third millennium BC, if not before that, persisted in all subsequent ages. Thus, he emphasized the racial continuity of Greeks, stating epigrammatically [2]:
"Racial continuity in Greece is striking."
http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/texts...morphological/

From ancient Greece the Greeks have inherited a sophisticated culture
and a language that has been documented for almost three millennia.
Modern Greek is recognizably the same as the language of Athens under
Pericles in the 5th century BC. Few languages can demonstrate such
continuity.



Many modern scientists and scholars (e.g. anthropologists like C. Coon
and geneticists like Antonio Arnaiz-Villena) have supported that there
is an unbroken racial connection to the ancient Greeks.


It's been said that modern Greeks are racially different from their
ancient predecessors, having over the centuries mixed with slaves and
foreigners, including Negroids, and lost an allegedly Nordic character.
The scientific data, however, shows tremendous continuity and near
purity among Greeks, as well as a virtual absence of Nordic racial
elements since the beginning of Greek history
.



*********


Horo = Dance (in general)

Horoi = Dances

Horon = archaic way of saying dance. 
Pontians say 'dance' this way and the Pontian dialect is the closest to ancient Greek, after all.

**********

What do you guys think of this ??  Does it have any credibility ?
Illyrians as Dorians
The Harvard anthropologist, Carleton S. Coon, found a connection between the Illyrians and the Dorians
based on his anthropological analyses
of the Montenegrin population and the Sfakian population in Crete.
Coon discovered that Montenegro is a highly concentrated Illyrian racial zone and that the Sfakians are directly
descended from Doric tribes that invaded Crete from the direction of Macedonia and Illyria.
Moreover, he discovered that Montenegrins and Sfakians shared many similarities in stature, appearance,
language, national costume, belligerent tendencies, tribal orders, and vendettas.

History and Greek mythology may have the potential in reinforcing such a connection. The Illyrians could have
technically been the descendants of early Doric tribes that settled in Illyria prior to 2000 BC. One potentially
important link between the Illyrians and the Dorians is their mutual respect for Hercules. Hyllus, the first recorded
ruler of Illyria, was deemed as a descendant of Hercules and the Dorians deemed Hercules as an important
heroic/historical ancestor. The Dorians called their invasions of Greece as the "return of Hercules".

Another potential indication between the Illyrians and the Dorians come from Roman sources dating back to the
2nd century BC. During this time, the Romans and the Illyrians were at war. Queen Teuta's Illyria was considered
by Rome as a "half-Hellenic country."
The term implies that the Illyrians were Hellenes that spoke a Hellenic dialect,
but their culture was much less advanced in contrast to other Greek civilizations such as the Athenians.

The ancient Macedonians deemed the Illyrians, as well as the Thracians, as their closest kin even though they have
engaged in wars with their neighbors. This sense of "kinship" between Macedonians and Illyrians may be attributed
to the possibility that both groups were cognizant of being descendants of Doric tribes. Moreover, this "kinship"
entailed similarities they possessed in that they both spoke "barbaric" (or unsophisticated) forms of Hellenic and
possessed less developed forms of Greek culture (again, in contrast to the Athenians).

Polybius stated that the Macedonians and the Illyrians required translators in order to communicate with each other
(Book XXVIII, paragraph 8). In 169 BC, Perseus, the king of Macedon, sent Adaeus of Berroia (who only spoke Greek)
and Pleuratus the Illyrian as a translator on a mission to King Genthius of Illyria. On a sidenote, Pleuratus was an exile
living in Perseus' court. This has led modern scholars to interpret Polybius' statement as proving that both the Macedonians
and the Illyrians were different populaces due to their different languages. However, if the Macedonians and the Illyrians
spoke "barbarian" versions of Greek that were linguistically unintelligible to a certain extent, then it would make sense for
translators to be present during crucial political/diplomatic discussions. In ancient times,
tribes distinguished themselves based on language differences even if they possessed similar/identical cultural, religious,
and genealogical heritages.[1]

Within the ancient Greek socio-political context, dialects that came from the same language were not necessarily well
understood (or at least totally understood) by those trying to communicate with each other. Language differences between
Greek tribes have also been emphasized for mainly political reasons (i.e. Demosthenes, Third Philippic). Hence, the translators
that Polybius spoke of in his chronicles should not necessarily be interpreted as having been called to help facilitate lines of
communication between two ethnically different tribes possessing different languages.[2]

http://www.answers.com/topic/illyrians




Edited by Ellin - 18-Dec-2006 at 03:11
"Grk ppl r anarchic & difficlt 2 tame.4 this reasn we must strike deep in2 thr lang,relgn,cult& hist resrvs, so that we cn neutrlz thr ability 2 develp,distinguish
themslvs/ 2 prevail"..up urs Kisngr
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  Quote Ellin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2006 at 03:30

more Greek propaganda for you!
autochthonic.. my foot!!


Source: University of Cincinnati

An interesting article about the presence of significant Archaic Greek remains in Albania, found outside the ancient (Greek) city-state of Apollonia.

Researchers from the University of Cincinnatis Classics faculty are preparing to make their first public presentation of details surrounding their find of one of the earliest Greek temples in the Adriatic region north of Greece.

"This is a case where a hunch about the potential of a site is paying off in the discovery of a temple that has extraordinary and singular importance to Albanian archaeology and to the history of Greek colonization in the Adriatic Sea region," says Jack L. Davis, the Carl W. Blegen Professor of Greek Archaeology at the University of Cincinnati and co-director of the international research team working at the site. "We are gaining the tools for an understanding of religious life in the 6th and 5th centuries B.C., a part of the early history of Apollonia of which little is known."

Presenting with Davis will be UC colleagues Sharon R. Stocker, Kathleen Lynch and Evi Gorogianni, along with Albanian researchers Iris Pojani and Vangjel Dimo.

The temple they have discovered, located in coastal Albania, is only the fifth known stone temple in Albania. It stands out both because of its age and its size.

The site is just outside of the ancient greek city-state of Apollonia, and dates back to the late 6th century B.C. That would put its use in the Archaic and Classical periods, a time from which little has been recovered from inside the acropolis of Apollonia.

So far, in addition to remains of sacrificial meals and broken fineware pottery, substantial numbers of Classical and Hellenistic figurines have been found, although the principal deity of the sanctuary remains undetermined at this point.

"It now seems likely that the life of the sanctuary began not long after the founding of the Apollonia colony," Davis says. "What we discover here will contribute much to our understanding of religious life in the 6th and 5th centuries B.C., a period that is hardly known from previous excavations inside the borders of Apollonia itself."

The researchers suspected the temple was large, but only recently determined its approximate proportions: 14 meters by 40 meters.

The history of excavations on the site, located on a farm known by the family name of Bonjaket, dates back more than 40 years ago, when a farmers tractor uncovered terracotta figurines outside the walls of Apollonia. The site appeared to include remains of a sanctuary. An Albanian-Russian archeological team explored it, finding traces of brick walls and dating hundreds of the figurines to the 4th-2nd century B.C. Their work went unnoticed, however: the rupture in Soviet-Albanian relations in 1960 kept the team from publishing much about their work


In 2002, Albanian archeologists, working collaboratively with Davis and other UC colleagues, conducted a surface survey. Measuring off a grid in the low-lying land between the ancient walls of Apollonia and the Adriatic Sea, team members walked, painstakingly searching for artifacts hidden in the dirt and vegetation.

They found more figurines, the foot of a statue, a late Greek inscription, a small stone altar and pottery from a much earlier date.

The combination of figurines, "which often point to ancient places of worship," and the older pottery led the team to believe the site was older than they first thought, Davis said.

"It seemed to us that the sanctuary was already being used in the Archaic period," some 100-350 years earlier than the 1960 team had believed, he said.


Then came the kicker: a family who owns a section of the land told Albanian team leader Lorenc Bejko that they had uncovered a foundation made of large, regular blocks as they were building a new house back in 1997.

Now, the UC-Albanian team needed to dig. Evidence was mounting that a large temple, not just a sanctuary, had occupied the site. The archeologists wanted to "trace lines of (the) massive ashlar blocks" that had been disturbed during the building of the familys house, Davis said.

After careful negotiations with the Bonjaket family, major work began in 2004 to unearth the true scope of the apparent temple. After two seasons spent at the site, momentum continues to build that many details about the religious history of the temple and the Apollonia colony are about to be determined.

The UC researchers, along with colleagues from the International Centre for Albanian Archaeology and the Institute of Archaeology, Tirana, presented their new work on Friday, Jan. 6, 2006, in Montreal at the annual meeting of the Archaeological Institute of America.






"Grk ppl r anarchic & difficlt 2 tame.4 this reasn we must strike deep in2 thr lang,relgn,cult& hist resrvs, so that we cn neutrlz thr ability 2 develp,distinguish
themslvs/ 2 prevail"..up urs Kisngr
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