I just skimmed over this thread so apologies if I am repeating things said already.
For those who like to disassociate the modern Greeks from their ancient forebearers, here's a little something to quash your 'wishful thinking' and anti-Hellenism..
But before I go on, there's this one, quite semantic and predominant tradition we have, whereby all offspring are named after paternal and/or maternal grandparents.
A tradition that dates back to even the pre-Christian era, ie antiquity.
Now if we, the Greeks, have Archaic names that are prevalent in our ethnicity or community, names like,
Alexander, Antigone, Andromahe, Andreas, Achilea, Akakios, Anatoli, Androniki, Aphrodite, Argyros/Argyri, Aristotle, Arsenios, Aspasia, Chrysanthe, Cleopatra/Patra, Corinna, Demetrios/Demetria, Demosthenes, Diogenes, Dionysios, Eirene/Irene, Electra, Epaminontas, Eudokia, Eudoxia, Eustathios, Euthimios, Georgeos, Helen, Hercules, Hypatia, Ismini, Kyriakos, Leonidas, Nike/Nicky, Nikodemos, Nikolaos/Nick, Olympia, Pelagia, Pericles, Petra, Phillip, Photios/Photini, Plato/Platon, Pyrhos, Socrates, Sophia, Sophocles, Sophronios, Stephanos, Straton, Themistocles, Theodora/Theodore, Theodosius, Timotheus, Xenophon, Zoe. etc etc etc
and since these names weren't plucked out of thin air or from our posteriors, what does that go tell you about our racial lineage??
99% of that list is derived from people I personally know, let alone others not mentioned, and I'm sure the same applies for others, so goes to show you the extent of it all.
Greeks were and are a very proud bunch (not in the negative sense),
but they had strong ideals when it came down to preserving race, faith, culture etc. And that doesn't mean they were 'racist' either or racial supremists. Our history confirms our acceptance and tolerance of other people or nations, esp when there were no provocations.
The Greeks weren't even fond of or receptive to "(Greek) tribal-intermarriages", at first, let alone all this supposed racial intermarriages, which was generally seen as tabu.
Wasn't the purpose behind some of the Ionian trans-continental migrations due to the Dorians, and not wanting to mix with them, ie another Greek 'tribe', because they saw themselves as culturally superior?
Some nations are more homogenous than others.. I don't see why
some people have a problem with this. Some people use their own country, which 'was' and 'is' subject to/more prone to racial admixing (and that's fine btw), as a yardstick and think this is the case for all countries. I don't think you can put everyone in the same basket.
Here's some excerpts supporting Greece's relative homogeneity.
Until the early 1990s, Greece had been an extremely
homogenous society,
but with the collapse of communist
regimes in Eastern Europe it suddenly experienced big influxes
of immigrants, particularly from Albania.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4101469.stmGreece is the most homogeneous country in Europe and
one of the most homogenous countries in the world, with an
almost 97% majority of citizens sharing the same national
identity, religion (Greek Orthodox Christians), language
and race.
but there is also a 1.3% Muslim minority which
lives mainly along the borders with Turkey), This means that
there are no great social and political disturbances (especially
since the restoration of democracy in 1974) or other similar
problems. Greek society is very coherent and the Greek family,
a basic social institution, seems strong enough to support its
members even at the most difficult times. As a result, the high
rate of unemployment does not spawn problems like
homelessness or a high criminality rate.http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/world/greececor3.htmGreece is the most ethnically homogeneous country
in the Balkans,with ethnic Greeks making up more than
95 percent of the population(not accounting for illegal immigrants).
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761572872_3/Greece.htmlGREEK SOCIETY HAS DEVELOPED over a period of nearly
3,000 years, with only few interruptions, in a physical and
geographical environment that contributed unique qualities
and facilitated widespread dissemination of the elements
of its civilization. Despite centuries of occupation by
Roman and Ottoman empires, the Greeks maintained an
unusually homogenous ethnicity that today includes
only very small minorities.
Greece's ethnicity is reflected in the 97 percent of Greeks
professing membership in the nation's established church,
the Orthodox Church of Greece.http://www.photius.com/countries/greece/society/greece_society_society_and_its_envi~8344.htmlAngel studied skeletal material from the Paleolithic to modern times, and participated in examinations of skeletal material throughout the East Mediterranean. With respect to Greece, he found that the morphological types already established in the third millennium BC, if not before that, persisted in all subsequent ages. Thus, he emphasized the racial continuity of Greeks, stating epigrammatically [2]:"Racial continuity in Greece is striking."http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/texts...morphological/From ancient Greece the Greeks have inherited a sophisticated culture
and a language that has been documented for almost three millennia.
Modern Greek is recognizably the same as the language of Athens under
Pericles in the 5th century BC.
Few languages can demonstrate such
continuity.Many modern scientists and scholars (e.g. anthropologists like C. Coon
and geneticists like Antonio Arnaiz-Villena) have supported that there
is an
unbroken racial connection to the ancient Greeks. It's been said that modern Greeks are racially different from their
ancient predecessors, having over the centuries mixed with slaves and
foreigners, including Negroids, and lost an allegedly Nordic character.
The scientific data, however, shows tremendous continuity and near
purity among Greeks, as well as a virtual absence of Nordic racial
elements since the beginning of Greek history.
*********
Horo = Dance (in general)
Horoi = Dances
Horon = archaic way of saying dance.
Pontians say 'dance' this way and the Pontian dialect is the closest to ancient Greek, after all.
**********
What do you guys think of this ?? Does it have any credibility ?
Illyrians as Dorians
The Harvard anthropologist, Carleton S. Coon, found a connection between the Illyrians and the Dorians
based on his anthropological analyses of the Montenegrin population and the Sfakian population in Crete.
Coon discovered that Montenegro is a highly concentrated Illyrian racial zone and that the Sfakians are directly
descended from Doric tribes that invaded Crete from the direction of Macedonia and Illyria.
Moreover, he discovered that Montenegrins and Sfakians shared many similarities in stature, appearance,
language, national costume, belligerent tendencies, tribal orders, and vendettas.
History and Greek mythology may have the potential in reinforcing such a connection. The Illyrians could have
technically been the descendants of early Doric tribes that settled in Illyria prior to 2000 BC. One potentially
important link between the Illyrians and the Dorians is their mutual respect for Hercules. Hyllus, the first recorded
ruler of Illyria, was deemed as a descendant of Hercules and the Dorians deemed Hercules as an important
heroic/historical ancestor. The Dorians called their invasions of Greece as the "return of Hercules".
Another potential indication between the Illyrians and the Dorians come from Roman sources dating back to the
2nd century BC. During this time, the Romans and the Illyrians were at war. Queen Teuta's Illyria was considered
by Rome as a "half-Hellenic country." The term implies that the Illyrians were Hellenes that spoke a Hellenic dialect,
but their culture was much less advanced in contrast to other Greek civilizations such as the Athenians.
The ancient Macedonians deemed the Illyrians, as well as the Thracians, as their closest kin even though they have
engaged in wars with their neighbors. This sense of "kinship" between Macedonians and Illyrians may be attributed
to the possibility that both groups were cognizant of being descendants of Doric tribes. Moreover, this "kinship"
entailed similarities they possessed in that they both spoke "barbaric" (or unsophisticated) forms of Hellenic and
possessed less developed forms of Greek culture (again, in contrast to the Athenians).
Polybius stated that the Macedonians and the Illyrians required translators in order to communicate with each other
(Book XXVIII, paragraph 8). In 169 BC, Perseus, the king of Macedon, sent Adaeus of Berroia (who only spoke Greek)
and Pleuratus the Illyrian as a translator on a mission to King Genthius of Illyria. On a sidenote, Pleuratus was an exile
living in Perseus' court. This has led modern scholars to interpret Polybius' statement as proving that both the Macedonians
and the Illyrians were different populaces due to their different languages. However, if the Macedonians and the Illyrians
spoke "barbarian" versions of Greek that were linguistically unintelligible to a certain extent, then it would make sense for
translators to be present during crucial political/diplomatic discussions. In ancient times,
tribes distinguished themselves based on language differences even if they possessed similar/identical cultural, religious,
and genealogical heritages.[1]
Within the ancient Greek socio-political context, dialects that came from the same language were not necessarily well
understood (or at least totally understood) by those trying to communicate with each other. Language differences between
Greek tribes have also been emphasized for mainly political reasons (i.e. Demosthenes, Third Philippic). Hence, the translators
that Polybius spoke of in his chronicles should not necessarily be interpreted as having been called to help facilitate lines of
communication between two ethnically different tribes possessing different languages.[2]
http://www.answers.com/topic/illyrians
Edited by Ellin - 18-Dec-2006 at 03:11