In Balkans we have?

Originally posted by Anton   Brainstorm, I do not disagree with Hellenistic influence on Thracian culture I disagree that influence was in one direction and with opinion of some historical extremists that actually the whole Thracian culture is made by Hellenes and-or Romans.

Edited by akritas - 02-Dec-2006 at 12:45

Firstly,i don't look upon cultures-this time i am reading a book about Thracians-I m really interested in their culture.

On the other hand, i don't think u can compare Greek and Thracian contribution to progress of art and science.
The fact that some people used writing,developed the philosophical thinking ,the mathematical proof,theater and democracy cannot be compared with nice hand made artifacts..
It doesn't mean that these people were superior.There could be 1000 reasons which put the progress of particular people in particular era,so as to achieve more than their neighbor.
-Although i don't think there is any reason to do any such comparisons ,and moreover to put them under the balcanic micro-nationalism!

As for Yakutia-I m not a specialist in yakutian history,but if i am not wrong we speak about endless Siberia thousands of miles away of Moscow,conquered not many centuries ago.
I m not sure if we could make comparisons between this area and the crossroad of Thrace,1000 years next to Greeks(surrounded) ,conquered by Philip-conquered by Romans,under Greco-Roman influence-even colonization.
Such comparisons in history are often unsuccessful.

Originally posted by Mortaza Horo? Horon? I think It is not a balkain thing. We have it at blacksea too.

"Horos" is the word for "dance" in Greek. (ancient and modern)
Mortaza blacksea used to be greek speaking Pontus

@Anton
What do u mean "plenty examples of thracian philosophy" ?
I hope not Democritus and  Greek philosophers of the thracian colonies .
I know these-it would be far more interesting if u mean thracian philosophy that i dont know.

I didn't say artifacts are not art.Plz look more carefully. I wrote progress in art. For example,Passing of archaic kouros to classical sculptures of 5th century ,or hellenistic naturalism is a progress of art.

As for thracian religion i have read an extensive interesting essay.I could write smth,but not in this thread.

I really cannot believe u cant remember any example of assimilation.
Greeks and pre-greeks (pelasgians ..) ,Arabs in Iraq, Anatolians in Byzantium, Serbians/Croatians and ancient balcan tribes...there is an endless catalogue.
(plz don;t go one by one on the examples..we ll never end )

By the Way,i guess the name of this Thread assures its eternal life (in balcans we have... )

Originally posted by Brainstorm I really didn't understand u . By "horo" u mean dance in general or a particular dance? Dance in general..of course is a product of all nations not only balcan nations!!

Originally posted by Brainstorm @Anton By the Way,i guess the name of this Thread assures its eternal life (in balcans we have... )

Originally posted by Anton This is from wiki. This term could and should be extended by lingual (not thatlinguistic term of assimilation).

So,since u say there was never assimilation in history i wonder why there is a word and a definition for it .

We don't know much about ancient north Balkan culture and language. Apart from religion many aspects of their culture still remains in present nations, right? Some of them are songs about Gallati and Orpheus that I mentioned, customs similar to Dyonisius worship, Anastenaria tradition, most likely food culture. This is not assimilation at least according to this determination above.

Of course it is.The fact that some elements passed to the "assimilators" doesn't meant that there was no assimilation.
Although ,even for these "elements" we could doubt.Are they living ancient customs?did they appeared in between?or are they a result of specific environment and era ?
(for example food of ancient and modern people of a particular area doesnt have to differ much since same products are available for different cultures...the same goes for most aspects of material culture.)
They could be survivals..but they couldnt too!We shouldn't leave are will to drive us in easy conclusions.
Especially when these wills are the usual absolute aim of every nationalist who respects himself:"we are indigenous.We grew out of this land".

Also I would like to note that culture of Serbs, Croats and Bulgarians who are supposed to be mostly Slavs is much more close to cultures of Greeks, Turks, Albanians and Romanians than to Russians and Polish for example (I do not speak about religion).

The same goes for this.
These people lived for centuries in the same geographical region with Greeks,Albanians,even Turks.They grew the same crops ,heared the songs of the neighbor,borrowed and gifted sounds,food,dances.
It's not their DNA ( mixed with ancient natives) which separated fro mthe Polish and Russians.

The situation with language is even more hard. Of 200 thracian words we know the meaning of a small part ofthem. I probably oversimplify but from not very much data one cannot conclude that assimilation happen in this case.    Pelasgian culture and language is even less known. Correct me if I am wrong but situation with Anatolian nations is similar to that of nations of the north of Balkan Peninsulla.

Just the fact that the amount of words we know is so small,doesn't get u in thoughts?Doesn't this mean that they were so assimilated when they started slowly writing their language that their language didn;t manage to survive?
Pelasgians were somewhere between Greeks-u wouldn't recognize them..in 5th century they Were Greeks.Assimilated.(Herodotus mentions some living somewhere in remote areas of Thessaly)
If some of their customs or words (as Corinthos,Sindos" ) lived -transformed or not-in Greeks this doesnt mean we should cancel the relation between them.
It was Greeks that assimilated Pelasgians.Not the opposite.Not "a new nation combined of 2"

Actually they are different by DNA as well. Recent studies with bones of Tracians and Dacians suggest that they are close to present Romanians and Bulgarians.

This sounds very fine! Could you give detalis about the studies and if there are resources on web or in other part?

Originally posted by Menumorut This sounds very fine! Could you give detalis about the studies and if there are resources on web or in other part?