Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
akritas
Chieftain
Hegemom
Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Greek Macedonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1460
|
Quote Reply
Topic: In Balkans we have? Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 08:33 |
Originally posted by Anton
.
The dead end of the debate is when someone posts aregument without proof. |
Correct.You have only as proofs some genetics researches that make from Bulgarian scientists.!!
Edited by akritas - 31-Aug-2006 at 08:34
|
|
|
Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 08:44 |
Yeah, yeah I knew you will post this. Look at my signature :) Genetics is not the only proof. It is the unswer to those greek friends who claim that they disapeared.
Edited by Anton - 31-Aug-2006 at 08:44
|
.
|
|
alexISS
Samurai
Joined: 31-May-2006
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 147
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 08:45 |
Originally posted by Anton
About genetics? Yes I mean it. |
Uh, ok then, I quit I'm not a fan of mixing genetics with cultural identity research
Originally posted by Anton
The dead end of the debate is when someone posts aregument without proof. |
No it's not. If every argument was accompanied by a proof (an oxymoron, I know, but you mentioned it!), then there would be no need for a counter-argument, since the first "argument" would be already proven and hence non-debatable. Actually, it wouldn't even be an argument in the first place, it would be a fact. Your idea of a debate is the opposite of it
Originally posted by Anton
Look the thread. | I did. Nice thread. But no proof.
Edited by alexISS - 31-Aug-2006 at 08:48
|
"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music" Groucho
|
|
akritas
Chieftain
Hegemom
Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Greek Macedonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1460
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 08:49 |
Originally posted by Anton
Yeah, yeah I knew you will post this. Look at my signature :) Genetics is not the only proof. It is the unswer to those greek friends who claim that they disapeared. |
You signature mention Paeonians and not Thracians.Where tzetzes mention that?
Edited by akritas - 31-Aug-2006 at 08:49
|
|
|
Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 08:58 |
Originally posted by alexISS
Originally posted by Anton
About genetics? Yes I mean it. |
Uh, ok then, I quit I'm not a fan of mixing genetics with cultural identity research
|
Probably because the results do not fit your ideas
|
.
|
|
Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 09:04 |
Originally posted by akritas
Originally posted by Anton
Yeah, yeah I knew you will post this. Look at my signature :) Genetics is not the only proof. It is the unswer to those greek friends who claim that they disapeared. |
You signature mention Paeonians and not Thracians.Where tzetzes mention that? |
I do not use it as a proof. But you too much frequently speak about nationality of the researcher. He said it in many times:
So, according to your logic, since he is not bulgarian he is more true then those bulgarian genetists
Edited by Anton - 31-Aug-2006 at 09:06
|
.
|
|
alexISS
Samurai
Joined: 31-May-2006
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 147
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 09:06 |
Originally posted by Anton
Originally posted by alexISS
Originally posted by Anton
About genetics? Yes I mean it. |
Uh, ok then, I quit I'm not a fan of mixing genetics with cultural identity research
|
Probably because the results do not fit your ideas |
So you mean that if you have "Thracian DNA" then the Thracian language and culture will pop out of you eventually and replace what you were taught??? What the F**K does cultural identity has to do with genetics?? My perception of reality is not altered to fit my ideas, but I can't say the same for you, obviously... You are Slavs, get used to it, get over it and be happy, possessive and thankful for YOUR culture (for a change)
|
"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music" Groucho
|
|
Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 09:07 |
Should I add Malala's mention that Ahiles is Bulgarian? Again, those are your own scientists. You do not believe them? Why?
|
.
|
|
Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 09:24 |
Originally posted by alexISS
So you mean that if you have "Thracian DNA" then the Thracian language and culture will pop out of you eventually and replace what you were taught??? What the F**K does cultural identity has to do with genetics??
My perception of reality is not altered to fit my ideas, but I can't say the same for you, obviously... You are Slavs, get used to it, get over it and be happy, possessive and thankful for YOUR culture (for a change)
|
Relax boy (C)
Cultural identity is cultural identity of the nation's roots. The best way to prove roots is genetics.
Edited by Anton - 31-Aug-2006 at 09:29
|
.
|
|
alexISS
Samurai
Joined: 31-May-2006
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 147
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 09:30 |
Originally posted by Anton
Relax boy (C)
Cultural identity is cultural identity of the nation's roots. The best way to prove roots is genetics. |
I am relaxed. Relaxed and entertained. That last phrase of yours belongs to the nonsense hall of fame, and straight to the top too
|
"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music" Groucho
|
|
Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 09:31 |
As usuall, you are very argumentated.
|
.
|
|
alexISS
Samurai
Joined: 31-May-2006
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 147
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 09:45 |
Originally posted by Anton
As usuall, you are very argumentated. |
Please don't get me wrong, it's just that I never expected to come across an argument like that. What I'm saying is that, even if there is a hint of "Thracian DNA" in the modern Bulgarians (which I doubt anyway, but I don't care enough to discuss), it wouldn't mean you have inherited the thracian culture, because culture is not imprinted in the DNA. On a lighter note... As it's been already mentioned, all we know about the Thracians comes from the Greek historians' documentations and observations. If you trust us with what you consider your history, why don't you trust us now too?
|
"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music" Groucho
|
|
Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 09:56 |
Originally posted by alexISS
Originally posted by Anton
As usuall, you are very argumentated. |
Please don't get me wrong, it's just that I never expected to come across an argument like that. What I'm saying is that, even if there is a hint of "Thracian DNA" in the modern Bulgarians (which I doubt anyway, but I don't care enough to discuss),
if you do not care do not mention that you have doubt.
it wouldn't mean you have inherited the thracian culture, because culture is not imprinted in the DNA.
This means that we inherited their culture and we find it in our present culture. On a lighter note... As it's been already mentioned, all we know about the Thracians comes from the Greek historians' documentations and observations. If you trust us with what you consider your history, why don't you trust us now too?
Malala, Tzetses, Nicephorus Gregoras, Herodotus and .... alexISS
And don't be so puffed up. We know about our history not only from greek sources but also Roman, our own, Russian, Polish, Hungarian etc.
|
|
.
|
|
alexISS
Samurai
Joined: 31-May-2006
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 147
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 10:08 |
Originally posted by Anton
if you do not care do not mention that you have doubt. |
I'll say whatever I want, thank you
Originally posted by Anton
This means that we inherited their culture and we find it in our present culture. |
Being so confident that you inherited a culture that we know nothing about is arbitary at the least, but adding arguments about genetical studies to that suggestion is plain ridiculous
you can strike "our own" out . And by "us" I was referring to our modern day historians. I know very little of the world history. But at least I KNOW that, unlike you.
|
"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music" Groucho
|
|
Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 10:14 |
Should I unswer to all that nonsense? If you never heard about bulgarian sources -- that's your problem. As for the other things, one dude said several posts before
I know you must get it a lot in these forums, but please try to relax. Resorting to the belittleing of the other's knowledge is a clear sign of reaching a dead end in a debate.
|
Edited by Anton - 31-Aug-2006 at 10:22
|
.
|
|
Menumorut
Chieftain
Joined: 02-Jun-2006
Location: Romania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1423
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 12:17 |
How could the gothic words be explained?The gothic presence in the region of Albania didn't last long,whereas above the Danube they stayed for nearly two centuries. |
The Goths stayed for ~ one century North of Danube. The same South of Danube.
How could the common words between Romanian and Albanian of non-latin origin be explained?I have read that the word fire is similar in the two languages.The romanians apart from the latin word have another one which is common with the Albanian.
|
There are many non-Latin words common in Romanian in Albanian, but the Latin-origin words in these two languages are of different sources. It's clear that the common heritage is of pre-Roman period.
The Thracian and the Illyrian languages can't have been similar because then the classification made by the ancient Greeks would not have any meaning. |
Is true. But closeness existed. The Illyrians and Thracians lived in the today FYROM and Bulgaria and there was not boundary between them.
...........
Answering to older afirmations, I want say that most of the romanized (and even not romanized) Thracian and Illyrian population disapeared in the period of the invasions.
Check out these photocopies of a chapter from the book Byzantium and Bulgaria, a comparative study across the early medieval frontier by Robert Browning, University of California Press 1975:
http://savefile.com/files/15028
(if the download works slow try later).
I made the completion that the afirmation about Slav settlements in Moldavia, Wallachia and Transylvania is mostly wrong, the settlements discovered archaeologicaly belonged to the native, proto-Romanian population. The Slavic population was living in tents and was discovered in other places than the ones about Robert Browning have heard.
Edited by Menumorut - 31-Aug-2006 at 12:30
|
|
|
akritas
Chieftain
Hegemom
Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Greek Macedonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1460
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 14:00 |
Originally posted by Menumorut
The Illyrians and Thracians lived in the today FYROM and Bulgaria and there was not boundary between them. |
Just a remark.The Illyrian territories located in South Slovenia-Croatia-Bosnia-Serbia-North Albania and East FYROM.There was not any connection between Thracian and Illyrian territories according the archahelogical foundings.
|
|
|
akritas
Chieftain
Hegemom
Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Greek Macedonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1460
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 14:03 |
Originally posted by Anton
Originally posted by akritas
Originally posted by Anton
Yeah, yeah I knew you will post this. Look at my signature :) Genetics is not the only proof. It is the unswer to those greek friends who claim that they disapeared. |
You signature mention Paeonians and not Thracians.Where tzetzes mention that? |
I do not use it as a proof. But you too much frequently speak about nationality of the researcher. He said it in many times:
So, according to your logic, since he is not bulgarian he is more true then those bulgarian genetists |
So according Tzentzes are you close to Peaonians and not to Thracians.
Edited by akritas - 31-Aug-2006 at 14:03
|
|
|
alexISS
Samurai
Joined: 31-May-2006
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 147
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 14:10 |
Originally posted by Anton
Should I unswer to all that nonsense? If you never heard about bulgarian sources -- that's your problem. As for the other things, one dude said several posts before
I know you must get it a lot in these forums, but please try to relax. Resorting to the belittleing of the other's knowledge is a clear sign of reaching a dead end in a debate.
|
|
You're just making it harder for yourself... Nevermind, it was a lost cause anyway so, ok, you ARE a THRACIAN, congratulations ...but in the eyes of the rest of the world you still are... well... Bulgarian
|
"Military justice is to justice what military music is to music" Groucho
|
|
Anton
Caliph
Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 16:04 |
Originally posted by akritas
So according Tzentzes are you close to Peaonians and not to Thracians. |
According to him, yes!
|
.
|
|