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Topic ClosedOlmec of african descent?

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Olmec of african descent?
    Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 20:22
I believe the Olmecs were native people who could of had some Austerloid/Polynesian mixture.   I have seen mexicans with wide lips and nose, it is even present in South East Asia, so it is not exclusive to africa.   I find it sad that others are trying to steal the history of the native americans.



Edited by Ince - 28-Apr-2011 at 20:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2011 at 08:06
The Mexicans you mentioned could have been descended from black slaves. Alternatively, a tribe of Africans may have migrated to the Americas during the last Ice Age, founded the Olmec civilisation and gradually become absorbed by the Asian-descended majority, hence the black Olmecs' disappearance. However, this still doesn't explain why they left Africa and how they crossed the sea without advanced boats
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2011 at 08:56
Those facial features are also present among the Australoids /Polynesians and bones of Australoids were already discoverd in the Americas so they did cross over to Americas from asia before the more mongoloid native americans. 

Edited by Ince - 29-Apr-2011 at 08:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2011 at 09:15
Nick,we Europeans(Africans?),were not first on earth's soil!Diversity in DNA genes would have been followed few years after now.Migration's part could not be neglected also!Features of face show us Polynesian/Mongol influence.Absence of color confuse our minds.


Edited by medenaywe - 29-Apr-2011 at 14:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2011 at 14:12
Originally posted by Nick1986

The Mexicans you mentioned could have been descended from black slaves. Alternatively, a tribe of Africans may have migrated to the Americas during the last Ice Age, founded the Olmec civilisation and gradually become absorbed by the Asian-descended majority, hence the black Olmecs' disappearance. However, this still doesn't explain why they left Africa and how they crossed the sea without advanced boats
 
 
This isn't the first time I've fielded this, but I'll take it easy on you.  If it was Pinguin I'd already be journalisticly defleshing him.Big smile
 
Most of this is easy.  There was no migration, no Africans.  During the last Ice age people did migrate here.  However they were the Solutrean culture, from Europe.  They more than likely worked their way along the Pack Ice, using skin boats.  The Africans were too far South, no ice.  And in this time frame your correct, they didn't have the sailing technology, yet.  
The people who began the Olmec Civilization were Native Americans.  Considering the approx. date they use as the earliest for the Olmec is 4,000 bce, there were seaworthy boats being used at that time.  Again the evidence for cross oceanic contacts from both sides is sitting there, like the Gorilla in your living room.  Trade! Money! Power!  Greed is one of the strongest motivators you can think of.  Strong enough to compel men to "figure a way" regardless.
 
One other thing to consider.  At this time the Ocean levels were much lower than now.  There would have been more land exposed in the S Atlantic.  Less time spent in open water and more available stopping places.
 
Ince, no one is trying to swipe anyone's culture or heritage.  Where I think the Olmec were absolutely Native American,  The observable evidence is too strong for me to believe they developed and lived in complete isolation from the rest of the world.  But remember, influences run both ways.Wink 
 
Consider this, we have put humans in space and on the Moon,  why would an ocean stop us?
 
 


Edited by red clay - 30-Apr-2011 at 11:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2011 at 17:11
It's much more likely imo, that it is Polynesian influence that we find in Olmec sculpture. In fact, the heads themselves appear Polynesian. Polynesian DNA is evident in Mexico, as well. The Olmec themselves have origin stories of coming to the Mexico coast on three flotillas of boats.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2011 at 08:31
Certainly the Polynesians made it here.  The huge stone heads do have a Polynesian appearance.  But that doesn't explain the obvious Nok style sculptures or those of obviously Chinese or Japanese people.  When the objects were excavated, no one in their right mind would have proposed anything other than that they were Olmec in origin.  That is why you have things like a Jade mask of a Chinese person labeled"Olmec".
 
Unk, my degrees are in ceramics.  Way back when, Asian pottery was my "thing".  Using the methods I was taught, the stylistic influences of some of the Pueblo pottery as well as others, are to "Japanese" to overlook.  Even a mainstream rock such as Betty Meggars of the Smithsonian is starting to agree with that one. 
 
There are also early periods where influences from Mycenae are so prevalent, it's hard to not notice it.  Again, the Olmec were home grown.  However they didn't develope in total isolation from the rest of the world.  In fact, if just half of the reported contacts actually happened, the Coasts of the Americas were very busy.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2011 at 12:07
I have no training but am very interested in the ceramics of the americas. Especially the Peruvian, such as the Moche. Some have mentioned a possible Mycenean link.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2011 at 12:29
Dry passages during glacial periods could be revealed,If NASA/Roscosmos/ESA published their radar satellites
maps.Resolution of those is less than 0.5m!!!"Secret sea" passages all around the world will show us simple
migration roads.Mystery veil  about human civilization migrations on earth,would be teared forever.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2011 at 19:40

The idea that America was out of touch with non-american cultures can only be supported  if one closes the eyes and mind for all the evidence.

This terracotta head is actually post-Olmec, from the classic Mesoamerican period (ca. 200-900 AD) The Africoid features  speak for themselves. On top of that we see the facial scarification of African communities.

Jalapa Museum, Vera Cruz Mexico ( classic period ca. 200-900 AD)
 
Regarding the Olmecs. As I argued before, they were overwhelmingly Amerindians, and not Africans as some have claimed.  But the evidence does show that there were  some caucasoids and negroids in the region in Olmec times.  Several Mesoamerican histories  also speak of (bearded) fair-skinned and black people from the east, across the sea, who visited the region in ancient times.
 
Polynesians reached the Americas as well but seem to have little to do with the Olmecs since even by the earliest dates they were only in eastern Polynesia by circa 100 AD which is way post-Olmec.
 
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Edited by Sander - 16-Jun-2011 at 19:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2011 at 01:29
There is no genetic evidence, AFAIK, to support that the Olmecs were Africans.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2011 at 19:58
Originally posted by MERN

It seems to me that if Van Sertima's ideas were credible, they'd be more mainstream.

I've seen his name before in other "Afrocentric" literature ("Egyptians were black", "Moors were black", "Israelites werw black", "Hannibal/Cleopatra/Beethoven was black", etc...).

That doesn't give his credibility much of a boost.

Sorry, but IF THE EVIDENCE shows that any of these people WERE BLACK, then the person with dodgy credibility is the one who rejects such evidence.


Egypt is a case in point. By UNANIMOUS testimony of the ancients, the ancient Egyptians were people we would describe today as blacks:

Aristotle (384-322 B.C.E.) Greek philosopher, scientist, and tutor to Alexander the Great. 
Aristotle is said to have written 150 philosophical treatises.

"Too black a hue marks the coward as witness Egyptians and Ethiopians and so does also too white a complexion as you may see from women, the complexion of courage is between the two."
(Physiognomics, Vol. VI, 812a)

Aristotle makes reference to the hair form of Egyptians and Ethiopians: "Why are the Ethiopians and Egyptians bandy-legged? Is it because the bodies of living creatures become distorted by heat, like logs of wood when they become dry? The condition of their hair supports this theory; for it is curlier than that of other nations, and curliness is as it were crookedness of the hair."
(Physiognomics, Book XIV, p. 317) 


....................

Now, when you REJECT this, and similar testimony from some of the leading lights of European scholarship, YOUR credibility becomes very very suspect.




Edited by Felakuti - 18-Sep-2011 at 20:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2013 at 13:36
The world's first civilizations were indeed all black civilizations. From the ancient Egyptians to Nimrod's Babylon; and, from the Sumerians to the Elamites----they were all black people. We Africans know our descendants no matter where they're found on earth because Africans are generally black, but not all black people are, geographically-speaking, from the continent of Africa. African migration in ancient antiquity meant that black people moved, settled, and colonized just about all corners of the globe. They were the first in Europe, Asia, the Americas, and everywhere else, including Meso-America. The Olmecs were not Polynesians (who themselves are descended from Africans), but Africans of mostly Mandinka (Mende) and possibly Yoruba extractions. There also similarities between the Olmec script, Vai script (of the Mende), and to some extent, the Nsibidi script of Nigeria's Ibibio-Ekoi. 1.http://www.oocities.org/athens/academy/8919/decip1.html 4.http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2011/06/nimrod-was-kushite-ruler.html 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2013 at 14:46
I erased blank post Amah Jones,hope you do not mind about it!Welcome aboard.Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2013 at 09:54
Amah, you are proposing the extreme of Afro Centrisim.  That's Clyde Winters and not VanSertima.
 
Before anyone takes another swing at him, I'll remind all that the late Dr. Ivan Van Sertima, was Chair of the African Studies Dept. at Rutgers, the State Uni. of New Jersey.  Time has restored his credibility. When Sertima first published his ideas in the early 70's, there were a lot of folks that were just not ready to accept them.
 
But for many including myself, there isn't enough time to pass for Winters ideas to be accepted.
So, Amah, no not every Civ. was black, and the idea that the Hopewell/Adena were black is just afrocentric wishful thinking.  Or to quote Van Sertima," must have been something Clyde [Winters] had for dinner".
BTW, The Mende script came too late to have influenced the Olmec.  However there is evidence of a type of Chinese script found on ritual vessals excavated at the Jana Island funerary complex. CA 4,000BCE
 
What's most important here is the idea that the Americas were not isolated from the rest of the world.
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Dec-2013 at 17:52
This is a topic- Afro-centrism, in Egypt and other places, has been bashed to pieces at hundreds of web sites. Certainly, at one time, there was a great barrier between the indigenous people of the Northern coastal part of Africa (I.e. the Med area) and that of those who mostly lived below that barrier (I.e. below the Sahara!).   

There even seems to have been a barrier between middle African and our present S. Africa since the Boer/Dutch settlers of present day S. Africa and surrounding territories, whereby this area was mostly un-inhabited by Dark skinned(Negro/ Negroid)natives. This information is from some Dutch information I read a long time ago. And, please do not jump upon me by my usage of the above terms! The NAACP still uses the term "colored people" for God's sake. Just like the "American Negro College Fund"! Politically Correct my ass!

Hell, today children are kept from reading the books of Samuel Clemens just because of language! I fart at those people who try to hide or distort our history!

Regards, Ron   

Edited by opuslola - 12-Dec-2013 at 21:12
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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