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Sea Peoples

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sea Peoples
    Posted: 24-Jul-2005 at 12:43
Originally posted by Zagros Purya

I don't see the correlation, it all seems a little fantastic to me.  I would be more inclined to agree with Phalanx's "Hellenic Viking" theory. 


Fine but one thing doesn't exclude the other. Most likely Sea Peoples were Greeks (+ ???) but that can't deny the Urnfield culture expansion in other well documented areas, even if they had no relationship at all with Sea Peoples and/or Dorians.

Anyhow... can anyone shed light on who were the Phrygians (who obviously were the one that benefitted from Hittite destruction) and Thracians (who were around since more or less that time)?

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2005 at 14:51

1. I don't rule anything out.

2. You know they could just have been indigenous tribes that became dominant with the fall of their predecessors, not everything should be explained with an invasion theory.

 

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2005 at 16:01
Most of the time invasions (that don't usually mean genocide but subjugation and aculturization) are the answer. When the locals are still separated from former invaders, they show cultural differences that are reflected in archaeological findings that would allow us to trace such reversal of the situation.

It doesn't seem to be the case of the Phrygians, or at least what I've found on them:

Wikipedia says on their language:

It is believed that it was close to Thracian and maybe Armenian, mostly on grounds of classical sources. Herodotus recorded the Macedonian account that Phrygians emigrated into Asia Minor from Thrace (7.73). Later in the text (7.73), Herodotus states that the Armenians were colonists of the Phrygians, still considered the same ethnos in the time of Xerxes I. Judging from linguistics, Phrygian appears closest to Greek, a language with which it was for some time in contact.

We know that pre-Hittite dwellers of the area (Hatti) were pre-IE (following the Hittite records that also include some Hatti language), so doesn't seem like Phrygians and Hatti are related (unless they are Hellenized Hatti - ???).

What seems very curious is to find out that Armenians were Phrygians in origin. Something I didn't know at all.

Other links: Phrygians.com.



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2005 at 17:39

We know that pre-Hittite dwellers of the area (Hatti) were pre-IE (following the Hittite records that also include some Hatti language), so doesn't seem like Phrygians and Hatti are related (unless they are Hellenized Hatti - ???)

Hatti belonged to the Caucasian group, not IE. hittite language was just assimilated by IE, they were originally Caucasian.

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2005 at 19:24
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

We know that pre-Hittite dwellers of the area (Hatti) were pre-IE (following the Hittite records that also include some Hatti language), so doesn't seem like Phrygians and Hatti are related (unless they are Hellenized Hatti - ???)

Hatti belonged to the Caucasian group, not IE. hittite language was just assimilated by IE, they were originally Caucasian.



That's what I said: pre-IE. I have long assumed that pre-IEs of Anatolia and the Zagros were Caucasic speakers but I didn't want to go further in detail.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jul-2005 at 09:14
Yes, Hurrians were pre IE inhabitants of the Zagros area, I believe Hurrians were Caucasian speakers; the Kurdish town of Awriman (Hurrian) still bears their name.
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  Quote tudhaliaIV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2015 at 07:50
"Democracy is the theory that collective wisdom derives from individual ignorance." -- H.L. Mencken
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  Quote tudhaliaIV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2015 at 07:52
Has the book "The Sea Peoples" by Sandars been discussed here?
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2015 at 10:33
no but I have begun to reread an original contributor to the concept.

Gaston Maspero.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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