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Ponce de Leon
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Topic: Jesus and his role in Islam Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 22:13 |
I have always wondered if Jesus had a role in Islam. And later i found out (in the history channel) that Jesus in fact did have a role in Islam.
-------But it was not being their lord and savior.------
In fact, it was about just being a prophet. A prophet that preached God's message just like all other prophets before him.
Question i have to ask is,
is Jesus still revered highly in the Islamic faith?
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erkut
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Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 22:17 |
Yes, like all other prophets before him.
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Lmprs
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Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 22:33 |
Actually he and other prophets are considered 'Muslim' by some people I know.
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Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 00:49 |
He was muslim. Muslim simply means believer. In one God. So no contradiction there.
Yes he is considered a Prophet. Actually when Islam came, there were two theories of Jesus floating about, one that he was Divine, while the other was that he was just another Prophet (Arianism). Indeed, Islam spread in the areas where Arianism was mosts prevalent.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 04:07 |
Arianism had been pretty well stamped out by the Romans several
centuries earlier. After the 2nd council of Nicea they were decleared
heretical and persecuted. Arians survived in Germany up until the
500's sometime, but not in the middle east.
Effectively after the bible had been written and adopted as offical
Roman christianity the arian belief (which opposed the bible) began to
die out.
Arius i believe was an alexandrian bishop (patriarch?) who held that Constantines bible was wrong.
Edited by Omar al Hashim - 03-Aug-2006 at 04:10
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Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 04:17 |
Arianism was still around in Egypt and the Levant.
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 04:35 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Arianism had been pretty well stamped out by the Romans several centuries earlier. After the 2nd council of Nicea they were decleared heretical and persecuted. Arians survived in Germany up until the 500's sometime, but not in the middle east.
Effectively after the bible had been written and adopted as offical Roman christianity the arian belief (which opposed the bible) began to die out. Arius i believe was an alexandrian bishop (patriarch?) who held that Constantines bible was wrong.
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It has been suggested that Clovis, the first frankish king to be christianised, was in fact an Arian christian, rather than a heathen. And his conversion was from the 'false' faith to the 'true' faith. Arianism certainly lingered for quite some time in the west.
I do not think that Arianism contradicts the bible. After all, the bible had not been canonised until the 4th century. And I am not sure...does the bible actually explicitly state that Jesus was both human and God (as is the present doctrine)? For most later heresies were based on different opinions on the trinity, so about the divinity of Jesus... I would not be surprised if it was not too clear in the bible, or there would not have been so much controversy about it.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 18:27 |
Originally posted by Spartan
Arianism was still around in Egypt and the Levant. |
Are you sure? You could be right. But I'm certain the majority were monophysite faiths such as Coptic and Syrian Orthodox
Edited by Omar al Hashim - 03-Aug-2006 at 18:42
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ok ge
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Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 18:31 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Arianism had been pretty well stamped out by the Romans several centuries earlier. After the 2nd council of Nicea they were decleared heretical and persecuted. Arians survived in Germany up until the 500's sometime, but not in the middle east. |
Interesting enough and according to what I read before, a significant number of Berbers tribes were Arians before Islam reached their homeland in northern africa. Many historians attribute that some berber tribes adopted Islam faster because of similarities of Arianism and Islam on the issue of Jesus non-divinity and human nature.
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D.J. Kaufman
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 18:45 |
Originally posted by Aelfgifu
I do not think that Arianism contradicts the bible. After all, the
bible had not been canonised until the 4th century. And I am not
sure...does the bible actually explicitly state that Jesus was both
human and God (as is the present doctrine)? For most later heresies
were based on different opinions on the trinity, so about the divinity
of Jesus... I would not be surprised if it was not too clear in the
bible, or there would not have been so much controversy about it. |
This has been argued over in the Intelectual Discussions section, it
seems to be debatable. This is probably a question for Ako, but I think
that Arius was one of the christians that raised objection to the new
testament.
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Sedat
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Posted: 05-Aug-2006 at 08:41 |
In Islam Jesus (Hz.Isa (SAW) ) is a muslim prophet sent to earth by Allah.
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Karadeniz Firtinasi
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 05:43 |
Sure, Jesus was surely a prophet who brought people a holy book,even though in Islam it is believed to be changed later(Seems true for me, considering an imperial council has determined which ones of the different variants of Bible are to be used)..
His reverance is high like any other prophet in the Islamic world
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We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;
A Strange Orhan Veli
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Bloodyface
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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 06:48 |
Please what is arianism ? who were arians ?
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Nestorian
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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 09:09 |
There are manuscripts of scriptures preceding Islam by centuries and after. The consistency of these scriptures (before and after Islam) are roughly 99%. The other 0.1% are grammatical mistakes which have no effect on the message and meaning of the scriptures. There were no imperial councils, perhaps you were referring to ecclesiastical councils on deciding canonical scriptures???
I refer to Islam because I assume you are referring to the changing of particular passages in the scriptures which allegedly refer to Muhammad as 'Ahmad" meaning "Praised one"??
Didn't Islam also have variant versions of the Quran which had to be destroyed too? Was that not an example of an executive order?
And there were no variants of the Gospel I might add, there were pseudigraphical books. They are not variants but unique books in their own right which were not regarded as divinely inspired and therefore non-canonical...but that depends on which sect you are, in which case, there are variant canons, but the books in those variant canons are not variants.
A variant is defined as a change of an original or a version.
The pseudigraphical books don't fit this definition thats why they are labelled as "pseudo-graphia" which implies "doubtful" authorship as many of these books claimed to be written by well known early Christians. They did not change the original versions of any canonical scripture.
Edited by Nestorian - 20-Aug-2006 at 09:17
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Komnenos
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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 09:59 |
Originally posted by Bloodyface
Please what is arianism ? who were arians ? |
Arians were an early Christian tendency in the 3rd century, who believed that Jesus Christ was created by God, and not identical with him, as opposed to the majority view held at the time, that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit were one being in three manifestations.
The dictrine was first proposed by Arius, a bishop in Egypt, and found quite a large number of followers in the Roman Empire, and especially amongst Germanic tribes, the Vandals and the Goths were all Arian Christians.
During the council of Nicea in 325, summoned by Constantine I, Ariansm was denounved as heretical and Arius and his disciples were excommunicated, but the dispute went on for another couple of centuries or so.
The Nicaen creed, that formulated the Trinitarian doctrine, is still recognised by all major Christian Churches today.
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Goban
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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 10:12 |
By saying not changing do you mean not contradicting the scriptures?
Why then were they banned and Arius excommunicated?
There must have been something more than questionable authorship involved...
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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 10:25 |
Originally posted by Nestorian
There are manuscripts of scriptures preceding Islam by centuries and after. The consistency of these scriptures (before and after Islam) are roughly 99%. The other 0.1% are grammatical mistakes which have no effect on the message and meaning of the scriptures. There were no imperial councils, perhaps you were referring to ecclesiastical councils on deciding canonical scriptures???
I refer to Islam because I assume you are referring to the changing of particular passages in the scriptures which allegedly refer to Muhammad as 'Ahmad" meaning "Praised one"??
Didn't Islam also have variant versions of the Quran which had to be destroyed too? Was that not an example of an executive order?
And there were no variants of the Gospel I might add, there were pseudigraphical books. They are not variants but unique books in their own right which were not regarded as divinely inspired and therefore non-canonical...but that depends on which sect you are, in which case, there are variant canons, but the books in those variant canons are not variants.
A variant is defined as a change of an original or a version.
The pseudigraphical books don't fit this definition thats why they are labelled as "pseudo-graphia" which implies "doubtful" authorship as many of these books claimed to be written by well known early Christians. They did not change the original versions of any canonical scripture.
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The earliest Qurans which have been discovered are identical to the present one. As has been pointed out time and again, the Quran has a numeric code, which gaurentees its authenticity.
Nothing divine, just a man made code (which was in common use elsewhere as well) to ensure that the content and the order remain the same.
Finally yes its true that the compilation of the Quran was done at a later date, and was an administrative action more than anything. But it was doen within the life time of most of the main protaganists. Except Muhammad.
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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 10:29 |
And "Ahmed", BTW was Muhammad's name. He was named Muhammad by his grand father and Ahmed by his mother, and I have read that he much perferred to be called Ahmed. Of course we will never know.
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Bloodyface
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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 12:01 |
I heard Romans were Mithraic during the 2th and 3th centuries. Is there any corelation with the aryans of India and Persia ?
Arius arians arya aryans? that sound similar no?
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Bloodyface
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Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 12:04 |
I heard vandals, alans... came from aryans tribes such as scythians and sakas
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