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Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner
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Topic: Best Infantry of Renaissance Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 03:04 |
Thoughts?
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"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,
I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."
--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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TJK
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Posted: 01-Dec-2004 at 16:37 |
What is exact timeframe of renaissance warfare ? XVI century ?
If so I would choose the janissaries or spanish infantry..also Zaphorozian Cossacks should be mentioned...
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Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner
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Posted: 01-Dec-2004 at 16:57 |
For the purpose of this poll, XV-XVI centuries.
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"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,
I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."
--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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faram
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Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 15:06 |
Spanish infantry!
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Jalisco Lancer
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Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 17:44 |
Los Tercios Espanoles
http://www.geocities.com/capicontreras/
http://es.geocities.com/capitancontreras/
Edited by Jalisco Lancer
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capcartoonist
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Posted: 09-Dec-2004 at 10:20 |
The Janissaries were defeated by German landsknechte at the seige of Vienna in 1529.
Swiss pikemen were good. They defeated the mounted knights of Charles the Bold of Burgundy in 1477 (Battle of Nancy).
Cossacks were probably the best light cavalry of their time.
The English longbowmen were very good in their day, but were supplanted by the musket. Actually, I'd say the longbowmen were of the Medieval Period. Gunpower is a Renaissance innovation.
Spanish infantry, the dreaded tercios, was also good. Until the modern era, and the innovations of Gustav Adolph of Sweden (died 1632).
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Cap
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TJK
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Posted: 09-Dec-2004 at 13:22 |
Originally posted by capcartoonist
The Janissaries were defeated by German landsknechte at the seige of Vienna in 1529.
Cossacks were probably the best light cavalry of their time.
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Jasnissaries defeated lancknechts next year in Hungary during open field battle.. and Zaphorozian Cossaks haven't good cavalry at all..contrary to the popular belief they were very good infantry..
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Temujin
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Posted: 09-Dec-2004 at 14:15 |
but he did not say Zaporozhians, and later during Russian rule, Zaporozhians (Black-Sea Cossacks) indeed had good cavalry.
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TJK
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Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 04:32 |
Originally posted by Temujin
but he did not say Zaporozhians, and later during Russian rule, Zaporozhians (Black-Sea Cossacks) indeed had good cavalry. |
I assume he refer to my previous post and in fact within specified timeframe there were only Zaphorozian Cossacks and Don Cossacks which (both) have good infantry but not good cavalry (Crimean Tatar cavalry or polish light cavalry were much better).
BTW during XVIII century, under Russian rule Zaphorozian Cossack ceased to exist..
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Temujin
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Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 15:18 |
no, there were just known under a different name, black sea cossacks.
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TJK
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Posted: 11-Dec-2004 at 05:53 |
Originally posted by Temujin
no, there were just known under a different name, black sea cossacks. |
No, Black Sea Cossacks were formed from the part of former Zaphorozian Cossacks in 1788 and this was not just the other name.. many Zaphorozian Cossacks have migrated in XVIII century into Ottoman Empire and founded Danubian Sich.
But I think we are off -topic here..let discuss about infantry form XVI century..
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Degredado
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Posted: 23-Dec-2004 at 06:18 |
I'm going for the Spanish.
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Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas
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Posted: 23-Dec-2004 at 22:53 |
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Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner
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Posted: 19-Jan-2005 at 21:51 |
Originally posted by TJK
Originally posted by capcartoonist
The Janissaries were defeated by German landsknechte at the seige of Vienna in 1529.
Cossacks were probably the best light cavalry of their time.
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Jasnissaries defeated lancknechts next year in Hungary during open field battle... |
And what battle would that be?
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"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,
I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."
--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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TJK
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Posted: 24-Jan-2005 at 15:28 |
Well, I have mixed up the two different battles : in 1530 the landsknecht were just unsucessfull during siege of Buda (as janissaries at Vienna) but on 21st August 1541 landsknecht commanded by Wilhelm Roggendorf were competely defeated by janissaries (aslo near Buda).
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Paul
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Posted: 24-Jan-2005 at 18:09 |
Ambiguous term 'best'
The best infantry were the Levellers. They were excellent quality soldiers though far from the finest of the period. But they fought for the finest cause of the era (possible in world history upto that point of time). And they fought freely and on conviction.
Newcastles Whitecoats who fought to the last man at Marston Moor, the Landsnechts & Spanish when the going got tough cut and ran.
Though really the finest troops of the whole renaissance were the New Model Army. The first fully professional army since Roman times and the basis for every modern army in the world today.
Edited by Paul
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Conquistador
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Posted: 24-Jan-2005 at 18:17 |
I really like the janissaries... just everything about them! Cool..!
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Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner
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Posted: 26-Jan-2005 at 15:31 |
Originally posted by Paul
Newcastles Whitecoats who fought to the last man at Marston Moor, the Landsnechts & Spanish when the going got tough cut and ran. |
That was not always the case--there were plenty of times when landsknechts and Spanish either fought to the last man (Black Legion at Pavia), or cut their way thru ridiculous odds (surviving Spanish infantry units at Ravenna).
Though really the finest troops of the whole renaissance were the New Model Army. The first fully professional army since Roman times and the basis for every modern army in the world today. |
Actually, I would consider the Spanish Army of Flanders to be the first.
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"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,
I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."
--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner
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Posted: 26-Jan-2005 at 15:35 |
Originally posted by TJK
Well, I have mixed up the two different battles : in 1530 the landsknecht were just unsucessfull during siege of Buda (as janissaries at Vienna) but on 21st August 1541 landsknecht commanded by Wilhelm Roggendorf were competely defeated by janissaries (aslo near Buda). |
Do you have any specifics regarding the 1541 defeat?
It's interesting to note that in 1532 Sulleyman backed off from Charles V's army of veteran landsknechts and other troops (and his akincis were wiped out by Austrian troops in the Vienna Woods).
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"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,
I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."
--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 07:58 |
the swiss pikemen is my choice atleast up until guns were fully inovated into the military
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