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Topic ClosedALEXANDER, where should I start with the

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Iranian41ife View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: ALEXANDER, where should I start with the
    Posted: 06-May-2006 at 11:58

Originally posted by Leonidas

Iranian14life,

Simple explainatian is that the the first greeks the persians came across where from iona, every other greek from then on was then called by that name. You know when a name sticks it can be hard to change.

Talk about sticking, persians still call greeks yuanan(sp?) today and with your logic that name should upset our turkish neghbours*


 *who also, thanks to the iranians call us Yunansti (sp?), amongst other things...

Originally posted by akritas

The existence of a satrapy in Europe, called 'Skudra', is known from Persian inscriptions (B44, 58f), 'Lands beyond the sea', that is beyond the waters of Asia Minor from the Persian point of view, were recorded in an inscription on the terrace-wall of Persepolis c. 513 B.C and a satrapy 'Skudra' was mentioned in a egyptian record of c.498-7 B.C and then on a list on Darius' tomb at Naqsh-i Rustam, c.486. The name 'Skudra' was probably Phrygian for the homeland, later called Thrace, which the Phrygians had left in migrating to Asia. The peoples of the satrapy were named c.492 B.C as three: 'Saka Paradraya', meaning 'Sacae (a general name for Scythian-type people) beyong the sea', probably the Getae, who resembled the Scythians in customsand equipment; the 'skudra' themselves, mainly Thracians; and 'Yauna Takabara' or Ionians [Viz. Greeks] with a shield-like hat' The last were mentioned also on glazed bricks at the palace at Susa. Some scholars have supposed that the Sacae 'beyond the sea' were Scythian peoples of the Crimea whom Darius had subjugated, but it seems improbable that Persia did hild that area, and that if she id it was assigned to 'Skudra' rather than to the territories in Georgia, centred on Tbilisi. Envoys from 'Skudra' bringing tribute carried two javelins, a long knife and a small round shield, which were characteristic of Thracian troops later (See Pls. Vol., p1,.40 XIX.
The Greek-speaking people with the shield-like hat were the Macedones, renowned for wearing the sun-hat, as Alexander I did on his fine coins from 478 B.C (look above). The Greek-speaking citizens of the colonial city states on the seaboard were not mentioned; nor did they wear a sun-hat.

Source: Cambridge Ancient History Vol 4

any other question as about the Yauna ?

thank you for answering my question. this is all i was asking.and yes, we still do call greece yunan, but i never knew why.



Edited by Iranian41ife
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2006 at 14:09

Why are you so sensitive with me Sharrukin and not with the others members that gave sourse propagndistic  web sites and un-historical quotes regarding the ancient Greek history ? And when say  we the Greeks  "ancient Greek History"  we mean and the Macedonian history.

I'm not specifically sensitive to you.  I saw where this thread was heading (perhaps too late) and now I deem it has gone astray.  The movie itself does not even address the issue of Macedonian origins, and the best that can be said is that if the Macedonians and/or their royal house weren't originally Greek, by the time of Alexander (as depicted in the movie) they certainly attained a form of Hellenization.  What no one cannot deny is that the Macedonians certainly adopted Greek tactics of battle.  This the movie depicted quite nicely.

the title of this thread has name ALEXANDER, where should I start with the historical inaccuraccies  and one from those are the quotes of the yazzmode621 .

My comment was to any statement that goes beyond the scope of this thread, and that meant also yazzmode621, too. 

The thread that you gave to read  has only 7 pages. 

You misunderstood.  There are, at this time, 15 pages to the Ancient Mediterranean and Europe subforum.  The thread (located on page 10 of the subforum) itself has 7 pages.

Is tired by you to give the answer in my question to the yazzmode621  dear sharrukin  ?

I'm not quite sure what is it that you are asking.  If I'm understanding you correctly, I say that while I am perfectly able to answer your question, I chose not to because everything that I know is contained in that thread I've pointed out, and I do not desire to repeat myself, like I have many times in that thread.  All it would lead to is more debate which is totally unnecessary, since virtually every challenge had been addressed to the smallest detail there.

Now, I repeat my warning.  The issue of Alexander's identity belongs to the other subforum.  I'm not even quite sure this thread belongs to this subforum, at least, not anymore, anyway.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 00:51
Originally posted by Iranian41ife

Originally posted by Digenis

well
1)Plutarch -i wrote it.

i need a source, i can make up a quote without posting a source too. i need proof.

Originally posted by Digenis


2)The cities founded in Scythia,Gedrosia,Arachosia etc.brought civilization there .
The hellenistic era -with the empires of Seleucids,Ptolemeyes,The Greek kingdom of Bactria - was an era of progress for science,literature and philosophy.

are you kidding me? the sogdian kingdom, the bactrian kingdom, all of these were around even before the achaemenid empire got founded! there was civilisation there!

and how dare you say the selucids brought civilisation. while you europeans were in your caves and mud huts the elamites, persians, medeans, sumerians, etc... were living in cities and palaces.

dont talk to us about civilisation. if anything, alexander should have brought civilisation to europe form the east, because besides greeks, there was no other european civilisation.

Originally posted by Digenis


3)comparing attila with the student of Aristotle proves ignorance.

both were conqueres were they not? if alexander is a hero for conquering then so should attila.

 

Why are you laughing  Iranian4life. While Europe modernised and became the cradle for modern civilization/technology. What were the Middle Eastern folk doing?????? (Im not trying to start a flame war, just pointing something out).

We werent living in huts swinging clubs around either.

 

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 09:14
Originally posted by machine

Originally posted by Iranian41ife

Originally posted by Digenis

well
1)Plutarch -i wrote it.

i need a source, i can make up a quote without posting a source too. i need proof.

Originally posted by Digenis


2)The cities founded in Scythia,Gedrosia,Arachosia etc.brought civilization there .
The hellenistic era -with the empires of Seleucids,Ptolemeyes,The Greek kingdom of Bactria - was an era of progress for science,literature and philosophy.

are you kidding me? the sogdian kingdom, the bactrian kingdom, all of these were around even before the achaemenid empire got founded! there was civilisation there!

and how dare you say the selucids brought civilisation. while you europeans were in your caves and mud huts the elamites, persians, medeans, sumerians, etc... were living in cities and palaces.

dont talk to us about civilisation. if anything, alexander should have brought civilisation to europe form the east, because besides greeks, there was no other european civilisation.

Originally posted by Digenis


3)comparing attila with the student of Aristotle proves ignorance.

both were conqueres were they not? if alexander is a hero for conquering then so should attila.

 

Why are you laughing  Iranian4life. While Europe modernised and became the cradle for modern civilization/technology. What were the Middle Eastern folk doing?????? (Im not trying to start a flame war, just pointing something out).

We werent living in huts swinging clubs around either.

 

 

 

We are talking about ancient times, and for sure european have adopted much from eastern civilizations.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 11:45
Yes true true. But youve adopted more from us.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 14:00

Originally posted by machine

Yes true true. But youve adopted more from us.

are you arranging a competition, who adopted more from whom? stay on the topic man, there were a claim that greec have brought civilization to Persia, which is nonsens. Persians was more civilizied than greecs in the Achemanid era. what has this to do with today europeans?



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2006 at 07:41
Persians was more civilizied than greecs in the Achemanid era.
 
Don't make me laugh.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2006 at 08:47
Originally posted by Maziar

Originally posted by machine

Yes true true. But youve adopted more from us.
 

 Persians was more civilizied than greecs in the Achemanid era. 



...........................>Dead
Be serious.

Anyway,e inever claimed that  Middle East was "uncivilized" ,and Alexander "brought civilization there!
This was a simplistic and funny interpretation of my writing.

I wrote(i m bored to death when repeating) ,that is unhistorical and totally wrong to compare Alexander with the Nomad warlords of the Steppes!

Does this sounds as a proclamation of European Superiority?Confused

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2006 at 13:38
oh god, i knew if i opened the Alexander thread it would this Greek Macedonian war, dont Greeks have enough to deal with with modern Macs and Turks then to bring up whos what race in ancient times. i kidding,
 
anyway I THOUGHT it wasnt proven what the Macedonian race was, if it was part of the Greek race, like Spartan Greek- Athenian-Greek, Macedonian-Greek........... or if they were their own. its not like the Greeks called themselfs Greeks back then! Greeks became who ever was Hellenistic and had different city-state names. though there are other people like the romans who took on Hellenistic ways but still were obviously a separate race and had their own language, Macedonians and others as well.. are harder to pin point for a reason maybe? obviously modern Macs are their own race now with Serbs and blah, and  Greece now ...or should i say the Hellenistic areas in moderen Greece is smaller than it used to be. and about fighting issues, Greeks fought other Greeks so you cant assume if they fight they are not related, what is Hellenistic really? how far do you want to go for people to be considered Greek? some Hellenic people are Greek but others arent? what makes one a genuine Greek but claim another isnt. Greek is a very hard race to characterize but reading that people act like they know for sure his race makes no sence, i doubt this is proven that he wasn't part or a quarter Greek. but we cant ask him. and not all Macedonians now claim ancient Macedonians were seperate, some claim Greek as well. and sticking to one sided websites arent best sourses, being a 'Macedonian king' doesnt claim race, its a title. tata
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2006 at 14:04
There we go again. I thought i was specific in the previous page that the topic was about the inacurracies of Alexander's movie and not another chance to start all over with the ancient macedonian's origins. Since some of you keep on, the topic serves no purpose anymore except as a battleground for new flame wars. Locked.
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