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bravest people that are not your people
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xi_tujue View Drop Down
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: bravest people that are not your people
    Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 11:24
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrh wookiee how do you tell if its female or male.
 
btw what race is yoda
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 13:06
It is unknown, Lucas has never told what race of Yoda is, but there are two suspects of that race around more, Yaddle and someone from the KotOR Age.
 
Wookiee sex: no idea, I bet their sounds.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 16:39
There have been many many brave peoples to grace the surface of this planet, but, having read Victor Davis Hanson's The Western Way of War (hoping I remebered that correctly), it has to be the Greeks...the Swiss pkemen before they got arrogant and greedy, or, above all else, those who participated enthusiastically in the American Civil War (and presumably other wars of the same period), brutal and random...you'd never find me in those ranks...well, maybe the Greeks. my first post, so ...hi all :)
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Posts: 109 		  Quote Datuna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 06:05
The braviest nations don't exist.......They're already dead.
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 06:41
or they are not the people they used to be
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 17:56
Brave=having courage to stand up for ur dignity and self respect.
The brave choose annihilation over assimilation.(A generalisation)
 
Whoever posess these two attribute are brave.
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Posts: 130 		  Quote Urungu Han Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 05:43
Some people said ghengis' mongols(but the army was mainly Turkic :D)
 
Some people said ancient Turkic Tribes.
 
And some said Germanic tribes.
 
Well,ı think the redskins are the second bravest :D
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Posts: 3387 		  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 08:18
Originally posted by Reginmund

Whereas both Rosa Parks and Genghis Khan were brave in their own way, they were both individuals and not peoples. For an entire people to deemed brave, it's not enough to single out a few extraordinary individuals and incidents, because this will make it possible to justify just about any people on the planet as the bravest. No, what one must look for is a continous show of bravery throughout the centuries, and the relative absence of cowardly displays. A people who've been able to "keep up pressure", so to speak, in all circumstances. Following this logic, the Turkic tribes would IMO rank far higher in this contest than the Mongols. Surely the latter had their days of carnage and glory, but it was confined to a single period whereas the many Turkic peoples made themselves felt over a considerable amount of time and in many corners of the World. The same could be said of the Germanic tribes; from the Cimbri's battles to the Roman defeat in the Teutoborg Forest, the conquest of western Rome to the establishment of the Holy Roman Empire and the defeat of the Magyars and the Slavic tribes in the middle ages, the Viking invasions and the Varangian Guard, from the Teutonic Order to the military state of Prussia, the Austrian repulse of the Ottomans, the unparallelled destruction of the Thirty Years War and the successes under Bismarck, and I hardly need to mention Nazi Germany that could only be brought down by an alliance of the entire civilized world.

I should've made my point clear; I'd say either the Germanic or the Turkic tribes, possibly both. This is of course a result of my history knowledge being somewhat restricted to Europe and the Middle East, but I doubt there are peoples outside these regions with even more impressive records that I haven't heard of at all.
 
I'd like to turn your point around. Is it possible for a whole people to be classified as brave? I think bravery is first and foremost a personal assett, not a public one.
 
As for the tribes mentioned above, I would call them either very thick-skulled or even plain violent. I don't see how several centuries of going berserk on everyone and everything makes brave...
 
So, I support Komnenos, and I would like to nominate this fella:
 
Have you ever seen the movie fragment? It is absolutely awesome, even more so because he remains anonimous.

Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 13:24
Is it possible for a whole people to be classified as brave? I don't know, maybe not, but then the whole thread would become meaningless, so I just replied based on the thread's premises. If a whole people can indeed be deemed brave, then I'm sticking with the two I mentioned.

Certainly, these peoples were violent at times, but when it comes down to the survival of you or someone else then the depressing truth is that strength will be the decisive factor. When stuck in a corner, one can either fight one's way out or die, and it's not like anyone ever wished to end up in this situation, they just had to be brave and make the best of it, lest all they care for should be taken from them.

I know this sounds a bit melodramatic, and actual drama can be extremely hard to relate to when living a sedated and comfortable life far removed from any struggles of life and death. Still, such struggles have been all too real for many throughout history, and still is for some.
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Posts: 3387 		  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 13:29
Originally posted by Reginmund

Is it possible for a whole people to be classified as brave? I don't know, maybe not, but then the whole thread would become meaningless, so I just replied based on the thread's premises.
 
True, I agree with you on that.
 
[/QUOTE]
Certainly, these peoples were violent at times, but when it comes down to the survival of you or someone else then the depressing truth is that strength will be the decisive factor. When stuck in a corner, one can either fight one's way out or die, and it's not like anyone ever wished to end up in this situation, they just had to be brave and make the best of it, lest all they care for should be taken from them.
[/QUOTE]
 
Also true, I did not deny their strength or struggle for survival, I just wonder if one could classify it as brave. I would say being good at surviving as a people is a great achievement, but not neccesarily an act of bravery.


Edited by Aelfgifu - 02-Aug-2006 at 13:29

Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears.
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 13:37
Maybe it's just stubbornness. LOL
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Posts: 2120 		  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2006 at 21:40
I've just seen a documentary about a man called Yehuda Lerner aged 16, he was separated from his parents in the Warsaw ghetto and sent to labor camp, there he escaped 8 times until he was brought to the extermination camp of Sobibor. He managed not to be gazed at first and with about 60 other prisoniers set up the only succesful mass escaped from the Nazis' concentration camps killing 12 SS. While escaping they were shot at by Ukrainian gardians and had to cross a minefield. Once free, he joined the Polish resistance.
If you are interested the  film's intitled Sobibor October 14th 1943, 4 PM. By Claude Lanzman.

M
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2006 at 06:31
Originally posted by Reginmund

Is it possible for a whole people to be classified as brave? I don't know, maybe not, but then the whole thread would become meaningless, so I just replied based on the thread's premises. If a whole people can indeed be deemed brave, then I'm sticking with the two I mentioned.

Certainly, these peoples were violent at times, but when it comes down to the survival of you or someone else then the depressing truth is that strength will be the decisive factor. When stuck in a corner, one can either fight one's way out or die, and it's not like anyone ever wished to end up in this situation, they just had to be brave and make the best of it, lest all they care for should be taken from them.

I know this sounds a bit melodramatic, and actual drama can be extremely hard to relate to when living a sedated and comfortable life far removed from any struggles of life and death. Still, such struggles have been all too real for many throughout history, and still is for some.
well said friendClap
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 0 		  Quote toysoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 10:16
ill have to say the russians. i mean, theyve taking punches from anybody and never fainted. mongols, otoman turks, brits, french, americans, swedes, poles, chinese... everybody fought them one day or the other, and they stood there in the buffer zone, fending off. the greatest empires ever took on them, and only the mongols made them surrender, but who wouldnt?
 
an on top of it, they are rather nice people, not prone to savagery or cruelty in war -standard raping and pillaging aside-.


Edited by toysoldier - 16-Aug-2006 at 10:18
three rounds each... now we win!
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Posts: 478 		  Quote Timotheus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 00:21
Toysoldier - I don't think too highly of the Russians, especially their leaders. You didn't describe bravery, more like resiliency. I would say the reason for their resilience is that they are a very monolithic and occasionally fatalistic people. They've lived through more oppression than most other states can count, and they haven't even been conquered very often. In that state, a people will often band together as one and fight together as one to defend what little is left to them.
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 23:39
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

Originally posted by Reginmund

Whereas both Rosa Parks and Genghis Khan were brave in their own way, they were both individuals and not peoples. For an entire people to deemed brave, it's not enough to single out a few extraordinary individuals and incidents, because this will make it possible to justify just about any people on the planet as the bravest. No, what one must look for is a continous show of bravery throughout the centuries, and the relative absence of cowardly displays. A people who've been able to "keep up pressure", so to speak, in all circumstances. Following this logic, the Turkic tribes would IMO rank far higher in this contest than the Mongols. Surely the latter had their days of carnage and glory, but it was confined to a single period whereas the many Turkic peoples made themselves felt over a considerable amount of time and in many corners of the World. The same could be said of the Germanic tribes; from the Cimbri's battles to the Roman defeat in the Teutoborg Forest, the conquest of western Rome to the establishment of the Holy Roman Empire and the defeat of the Magyars and the Slavic tribes in the middle ages, the Viking invasions and the Varangian Guard, from the Teutonic Order to the military state of Prussia, the Austrian repulse of the Ottomans, the unparallelled destruction of the Thirty Years War and the successes under Bismarck, and I hardly need to mention Nazi Germany that could only be brought down by an alliance of the entire civilized world.

I should've made my point clear; I'd say either the Germanic or the Turkic tribes, possibly both. This is of course a result of my history knowledge being somewhat restricted to Europe and the Middle East, but I doubt there are peoples outside these regions with even more impressive records that I haven't heard of at all.
 
I'd like to turn your point around. Is it possible for a whole people to be classified as brave? I think bravery is first and foremost a personal assett, not a public one.
 
As for the tribes mentioned above, I would call them either very thick-skulled or even plain violent. I don't see how several centuries of going berserk on everyone and everything makes brave...
 
So, I support Komnenos, and I would like to nominate this fella:
 
Have you ever seen the movie fragment? It is absolutely awesome, even more so because he remains anonimous.
/
 
Well then, clearly you find this (ahem) anonymous person quite brave.  So brave and handsome.
 


Edited by Tobodai - 18-Aug-2006 at 23:40
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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Posts: 3387 		  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 04:37
Is that you? LOL

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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 20:30
Originally posted by Maharbbal

I've just seen a documentary about a man called Yehuda Lerner aged 16, he was separated from his parents in the Warsaw ghetto and sent to labor camp, there he escaped 8 times until he was brought to the extermination camp of Sobibor. He managed not to be gazed at first and with about 60 other prisoniers set up the only succesful mass escaped from the Nazis' concentration camps killing 12 SS. While escaping they were shot at by Ukrainian gardians and had to cross a minefield. Once free, he joined the Polish resistance.
If you are interested the  film's intitled Sobibor October 14th 1943, 4 PM. By Claude Lanzman.

M
 
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Posts: 194 		  Quote Digvijay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 11:27
Originally posted by Reginmund

Maybe it's just stubbornness. LOL


In his Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan James Tod wrote:

"What nation on earth could have maintained the semblance of civilization, the spirit or the customs of their forefathers, during so many centuries of overwhelming depression, but one of such singular character as the Rajpoot? . . . Rajasthan exhibits the sole example in the history of mankind, of a people withstanding every outrage barbarity could inflict, or human nature sustain, from a foe whose religion commands annihilation; and bent to the earth, yet rising buoyant from the pressure, and making calamity a whetstone to courage. . . . Not an iota of their religion or customs have they lost. . . ".
      To see the exploits of rajputs please see here:
                      http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Rajputs_and_Invasions_of_India
     
       Also rajputs could not be captured alive if a battle outcome was against them. Rajput women self immolated themselves and men died fighting then be captured:

       http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Character

  
       -Digs
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 11:45
I would have to say the French, they have proven themselves relentlessly to be brave warriors.

Edited by OZZY - 20-Aug-2006 at 11:46
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