New Middle East Borders !

I don't think this will solve many problems, even if it WAS a good map! Now, the Factions at war with each other, will have a national banner! and can form and actual nation to fight there adversaries. I think this would start more Conficits then it is trying to stop

I like it! Sadly, the Kurdish independence won't happen, the Turks have too big of a geo-strategic intrest in controling the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers for the fresh water.

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Thats silly. You want to be unifing countries not breaking them apart.

From a "bystanders" view, I would think such a suggestion would be welcomed, but I guess it only proves what I wrote in another post not too long ago, that solving an old problem looking back, only breeds 3 new problems or more.

Originally posted by Northman   How would YOU envision a new scenario instead of this one, that could satisfy most interests in the region?

yup all our major problems are because of the west, the remaining problems are minor ones.

Originally posted by azimuth   the UNITED states of America wont be as it is today if it was not UNITED, Europe wont be as strong as it is today if they did not have any sort of UNION (a European Union).   divided people more = weakness   unite people = strength.

Edited by Murph - 28-Jul-2006 at 17:05

Originally posted by Tangriberdi Originally posted by Cent "Kerkuk was a dominantly Turkmen city and you americans changed it into a Kurdish city in accordance with your benefits."   Source? Recent Kurdish immigrations to Kerkuk. Newcomers are told not to know certain street names and even the names of neighborhoods in Kerkuk.     I AM REPEATING: Neither the U.S.A nor any other EUROPEAN COUNTRY have  right to be  militarily in our( we refers to All Muslims)territories. Neither in Iraq or Afghhanistan nor in Lebanon nor elsewhere belongs to Muslims..  The rest is a matter of imperialistic enthusiasm of America and Europe. If God knew how much pain and other inhumane things you gave us( definitely He knows), he would never forgive you. Does your Christian religion order to kill and give pain to other people? I do not know it. But I know that our Muslim religion orders to defend our countries and it is called Jihad. If you try to realize this stupid map,  you will come and face Jihad. I would like to remind you that Jihad means to defend Islam and Muslim countries. In jihad , it is ordered by God that the treaters must be killed as well. So , Kurds applauding imperialistic west becomes objects of this rules as they turninto  treators of Islam. THIS CRUSADE  WILL FAIL TOO. YOU WİLL NOT ACHIEVE AND SUCCEED IN IT.

Edited by Murph - 28-Jul-2006 at 17:50

Originally posted by Tangriberdi I AM REPEATING: Neither the U.S.A nor any other EUROPEAN COUNTRY have� right to be� militarily in our( we refers to All Muslims)territories. Neither in Iraq or Afghhanistan nor in Lebanon nor elsewhere belongs to Muslims..

That's funny. Perhaps you didn't notice, Turkey is a part of NATO too.

What about Turkish troops in Afghanistan?

And Iraq was invaded through south, remember?

As you can see, that "East vs. West" or "Islam vs. Christianity" classifications of yours make no sense at all.


    

Originally posted by Tangriberdi Concerning Turkey. This map is mistaken.  Take or find an  administrative Map of Turkey. And then  you can understand how mistaken it is in accordance with the information that I will give below.   In the map,  Kurdistan Borders reaches the  Black Sea via Artvin . It can never. Because ; as you will see if you are holding an administrative map of Turkey, Artvin has almost no Kurdish population. In the map Ardahan is shown within the borders of so called Kurdistan. Ardahan is a predominantly Turkish city. Just like Kars and Igdir. Erzurum has some Kurdish regions towards south. But the city center , northward and westward Erzurum is also a predominantly Turkish city. North of Agri is also has a Turkish population about 30%  Now come southward to the western side of the Van lake. Within the borders of the city Bitlis, the districts Adilcevaz, Ahlat and Tatvan are predominantly Turkish. Two of three of these districts, namely; Adilcevaz and Ahlat have Kurdish population under %20. In Tatvan Turks and Kurds are equal in number.   Now, that is the truth. How can your stupid bodies , even if they are professors or whatever,  dare to determine borders to Turkey. We draw it by blood.  If one day we decide that no longer we will be able to live with Kurds, side by side, then we will draw our own border again. ,Kurds in the north of Agri are newcomers.. So if we are separated one day. They will go back to where they come from. Today Istanbul  Mersin and other big Turkish cities have been exposed to Kurdish immigration.. Can someone say that Mersin or Adana or Gaziantep( took later Kurdish immigration and changed in ethno demographical data.)are Kurdish. No it is impossible. We will not let this happen. Kerkuk was a dominantly Turkmen city and you americans changed it into a Kurdish city in accordance with your benefits. But we will not let you be able to do this in Turkey. You must shed  your blood. if you try. That is it. Enough. U.S.A is the bigest provocator and terrorist country in tyhe world. History will write that so.

 
Mr. Tangriberdi, sending "back" people is not a very serious solution; from which point in history you start to look for a "forth", in order to have a "back"? By this very logic, you risk being send in central asia . . . "back".
The real solution, unfortunately for all the losers of history (kurds), is that the turkish state become a real democratic state, where the kurds has their place; that is their self-governing body, their language established, and their rights as members of a federal turkish state. The same with israelis: they can't for ever keep territory that is havily populated by palestinian arabs. They have to give it back the very second arabs show they really want peace and not just distruction . . .
But I wonder why the guy drawing this bizzare map has "created" a territory for the mecca and medina, "chopping" saudi arabia. May still be rational, but I fail to see the logic now . . .
 

Edited by Corlanx - 28-Jul-2006 at 23:48