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Topic ClosedNew Middle East Borders !
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    Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 22:02

On what page was main topic last discussed?

I thought so.
 
 
This thread has unravelled. Time for an alteration.
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If the forum were to have elections, I am sure the turks & their opponents would be the top two contenders. They dominate most of the threads & let the word turk or turkey just come up, the armies on both sides will be ready ! lol. Long live both the communities. you keep the adrenalin flowing. 
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Posts: 1775 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 07:59
if the forum were to have elections, i am sure the turks & their opponents would be the top two contenders. They dominate most of the threads & let the word turk or turkey just come up, the armies on both sides will be ready ! lol. Long live both the communities. you keep the adrenalin flowing. 
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Posts: 130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 07:28
Originally posted by Bashibozuk

 
It is shameful for me to be called an idiot by someone who still can't use quotation properly.
 
Anyway, let's not take this topic into personal insults and post relevant replies. 
 
 
 
I've heard Einstein was also expert in using forum properties, like you.


Edited by Argentum Draconis - 07-Sep-2006 at 07:41
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Posts: 3711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 07:27
I didn't claim him or his achievements being Turkic,
 
Infact you should be, He may become persian,  but All of his life passed with turks, his culture is turkic, and his followers were turks. His ideas were effected by his enviroment.
 
By the way,  His father was invited.
 
 
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Posts: 316 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 06:58
I AM a Turk you idiot
 
It is shameful for me to be called an idiot by someone who still can't use quotation properly.
 
Anyway, let's not take this topic into personal insults and post relevant replies. 
 
 
Garibim, namima Kerem diyorlar,
Asli'mi el almis, harem diyorlar.
Hastayim, derdime verem diyorlar,
Marasli Seyhoglu Satilmis'im ben.
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Posts: 130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 06:49
Originally posted by Bashibozuk

He is pro-Turkish, I've never seen him in a thread that doesnt concern Turks
 
It is true that Buldog seems to be a Turk, just like you, Argentum Draconis. Let's speak some Turkish as you did in previous topics, konuş bre!Big smile
 
 
 
I AM a Turk you idiot just why do you think an Armenian would bother to learn Turkish just to deceive the people in some forum.
 


Edited by Argentum Draconis - 07-Sep-2006 at 06:52
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He is pro-Turkish, I've never seen him in a thread that doesnt concern Turks
 
It is true that Buldog seems to be a Turk, just like you, Argentum Draconis. Let's speak some Turkish as you did in previous topics, konuş bre!Big smile
 
And as for Rumi, he was a Persian from Balkh, his achievments are not Turkic
 
I didn't claim him or his achievements being Turkic, altough he was a Turk in my opinion, my discussion isn't that. Even if he was not a Turk, he was Rmi, not Fars, he was a man of Anatolia and his achievements belong to Seljuk civilisation (which was based on Persian and Anatolian), not to Iran. Konya is the center of Mevlev sufism and philosophy, not Balkh or Isfahan.
 
Why would they champion it from nowhere? they got emersed
 
I couldn't exactly understand what you meant (sorry) but if you are trying to say the subsequent Turkish empires had rised with the Persian civilisation, we agree on that point.
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Asli'mi el almis, harem diyorlar.
Hastayim, derdime verem diyorlar,
Marasli Seyhoglu Satilmis'im ben.
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Posts: 1914 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 05:14
Originally posted by mamikon


click here for the full article:

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1915/bryce/a04.htm#30

facts speak for themselves

And dont misconsture my words, I never said Armenians became a majority in Tabriz....but decreased the majority of Assyrians.

Also, many Armenians crossed into Iran, and went into Europe/USA...
 
Oh, Mr. Bryce! Not surprising that this article is from the guy who prepared the Blue Book together with Toynbee..Is that from the Blue Book actually?
 
I didn't read very carefully, just skimmed and hadn't seen any specific stuff about Tabriz, only people fleeing, and just gossips coming to man's ears from outside..How can the truth be verified without that man being seen everything? How do we know that the Kurds going out there belonged to the Ottoman army?Well, Blue Book is already full of masterful deceit and propaganda I shall say, used this tragedy between the Muslim and Christian population of Eastern Anatolia in a deceitful propaganda.
 
Yes, Armenians crossed into Iran, mostly after the Soviet takeover..But not in the two months after Ottoman entrance to the war...
 
Oh, btw, to look at how realistic the Blue Book is, check this link...To see a letter of Herr Toynbee to another professor, taken from Wellington House Archives.


Edited by Kapikulu - 07-Sep-2006 at 05:16
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Posts: 1775 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 01:20
And BTW since Turkey supports the West all the time as it wants to be in the EU, Nato etc., Its not probable that Turkey will loose anything. The west is always ther to help it. Ironic, as it was turks who routed the west for centuries.
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Posts: 1775 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 01:18
We also need to look at the affinities of these groups of people with the western powers namely the US. After its these powers who are going to be the major players in any redrawing of the maps. An example is already evident in Iraq where separate shia & Sunni countries might become a reality in near future. Israel is already a living example of their authority over the region.
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Posts: 2200 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 21:01
On Tuesday, the 5th January, the Russian troops left the city and encamped on its outskirts ; the next day they started north towards Djoulfa, and on Friday, the 8th, the Turks and Kurds entered. For the next three weeks they were in possession of Tabriz. We were cut off from the outside world, without news of what was occurring elsewhere, practically shut up in this compound with the four hundred who had taken refuge with us. We had as our guests Belgians from the Customs and Finance Departments, French Catholic Sisters with forty or fifty of their school-children, two German ladies who had been sick and unable to go with the rest of the German colony, a Russian lady, and two American Seventh Day Adventist missionaries from Maragha, but most of the people were Armenian and Nestorian. As you see, they were of all nationalities and religions, but all lived together in the greatest goodwill, and things moved with a remarkable lack of trouble or friction.

click here for the full article:

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1915/bryce/a04.htm#30

facts speak for themselves

And dont misconsture my words, I never said Armenians became a majority in Tabriz....but decreased the majority of Assyrians.

Also, many Armenians crossed into Iran, and went into Europe/USA...


Edited by mamikon - 06-Sep-2006 at 21:01
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Posts: 1914 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 18:43
Originally posted by Scorpius

 
From my point of view, the real problem is the region Kurds are living. They are poor. No jobs, nothing to do for young people except immigrating to big cities. I hope you guys can solve this problem first. The region needs real investments.
 
 
 
Unfortunately the region is poor due to its mountainous position and dry climate(and cold in winter for Eastern part) ...Not only the place Kurds mostly live,  also Eastern Anatolia...Turkey had invested 100 billion dollars to GAP project out there in last 30 years, to solve the problem about water and electric out there, so the agriculture would be increased and new jobs would be available.
 
Believe me, it is also the interest of Turkey to stop emigration to West, because cities had nearly come to a level of explosion..Istanbul wouldn't be able to handle even 100 more people anymore..


Edited by Kapikulu - 06-Sep-2006 at 18:43
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we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

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Posts: 1914 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 18:35
Originally posted by Zagros

Ottomans occupied NW IRan in WW1 and extended their killings of Christians to that region.  There are memories of local Azaries and Kurds hiding Assyrians from Turkish soldiers in the rural populations.
 
Thousands upon thousands were massacred on Iranian land.
 
Originally posted by mamikon

people who fled Anatolia because of the Genocide...thus changing the population demographic of Tabriz. There had been a large Armenian community in Tabriz before WWI, so its no wonder it must have been one of the more popular destinations for those fleesing the massacres.

Also, Turks seize Tabriz in Jenuary 7, 1915...since you dont take a city in a day there must have been action in Tabriz for weeks prior to January 7... which is only seven days away from 1914. Zagros was pretty close to the date wasnt he?
 
 
 
 
Congratulations! You managed to put Armenians into another subject...
 
I didn't see Armenian population in what Zagros wrote, there were the Azeris, Kurdish and Assyrians...Though it is your success to put in the Armenians who "fled" and became the majority in Tabriz.
 
There was a small Armenian community in Tabriz, but those had mostly gone there after Armenia was taken over by Soviets..Mostly people and their families with anti-Soviet regime tendencies.
 
Ottoman takeover in Tabriz was 12 January 1915.It was just a small force, and have retreated to Azerbaijan after being routed(and many actually died of cold and illness,too) in Sarikamish and Ardahan.From Southwestern part of Azerbaidjan, they moved on to Tabriz.Their main objective was to sabotage the oil lines through Ahwaz.
 
Yeah, the standard thesis!!! bad Ottomans, bad Turks.While being around Tabriz, they should have surely executed those so-called "Assyrian massacres", aren't theyDead...Considering Ottoman entrance to the war was the very end of October 1914..So in those two months, at the same time, they fought with the Russians, and then routed and retreated with their jetmobiles, executed the Armenian and Assyrian massacres at the same time in those two months...And the Armenian people also simply emigrated to Tabriz in those two months,only after Ottoman Empire entered the war and formed a majority out there.Do you have any other realistic stories?
 
Oh,and by the way,Entrance to Iran by controlling Hemedan with a division-strength force was much later in 1915.


Edited by Kapikulu - 06-Sep-2006 at 18:37
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Posts: 1013 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 18:14
What? :)
 
 
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 18:11
Tughrul Beg was the first to revive Parthian and Sassanid architecture. Look at the Friday mosque in Isfahan. Seljuks were the ones who made Isfahan nasf e jehan, not the native Samanids or Buwayids. All post-Islam figures of ersia who have fame and success lived during the Seljuk period. Nizam'ul Mulk (the best states man, grand vizier of Seljuk Empire), Omar Khayyam (author of Rubayat), Mevlna Celaleddin-i Rm (who revived Persian philosophy and poetry). And even after Seljuks, the Safavid dynasty revived ancient Iranian names, sagas and epics of Ferdevs.
 
OK my friend, I have a lot of respect for you, but I have to say here that you are confused. Firstly, Persian art and architecture passed on into Islamic after their fall, what do you think Baghdad's architecture was based upon?  Friday Mosque in Isfahan was built by the Safavis, prior to Timur's destruction of the city, it was more glorious than ever under the Safavis, they simply rebuilt it in a modest fashion.
 
The glorious Samanid cities of central asia and Iran were destroyed completely by the mongols , the seljuqs added their share, but there wa salready greatness around them.  You forget exactly what iran was.
 
And as for Rumi, he was a Persian from Balkh, his achievments are not Turkic in any way just because a Sultan admired his work so much that he invited him to Konya.
 
 
Can you tell me if you said it "without" any nationalistic point of view sincerely? If so, you may also care to elaborate it.
 
Why would they champion it from nowhere? they got emersed into it. 
 
So what? That's natural, about fourty percent of Iran is Turkic, so half of his cabinet being Turkic doesn't sound so irregular.
 
If he repressed them then why would he have them in his cabinet? Saddam almost exclusively had Suni Arabs only in his because he repressed everyone else.
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Posts: 1013 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 18:06
Nice to hear about the development! Thumbs Up
 
Well, actually many are going to Tehran, especially the young ones, I have a cousin which will start studying there soon. The universities in Kordestan province aren't that good I guess...
 
However more things should be done, I hope that Kurdish (sorani, kermanji and feyli) should be taugt in their places in Iran.
 
Because our language (Zmanakaman) is essential for our identity.
 
 
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
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Posts: 8792 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 17:59
Originally posted by Cent

Azeri and other languages in Iran (Kurdish and balouchi), should be taught in schools where these people live. Why not have 2-3 classes a week to focus on your own language.
 
 
Well, you will know that anywhere in Iranian Kurdistan the people can all speak their Kurdish dialect and only use persian for official business.  There is an institute for Kurdish studies in Iran, where those who choose may further their interest on Kurdish culture.  I am sure there is an Azari equivalent.
 
Despite its awful short comings across the board, the Iranian regime is not so bad to minorities relative to its situation.  There is very heavy investment in Kurdistan right now (So much so that my uncle's engineering firm has opened a branch in Mariwan just to cope with the demand), I Baluchistan has the Chabahar port being built, Turkmen areas have been developed, Azari areas have been as developed as anywhere else, the only real place is Khuzistan which has been somewhat neglected. 


Edited by Zagros - 06-Sep-2006 at 18:03
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Okay, I agree.
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
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Posts: 130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 17:56
He is pro-Turkish, I've never seen him in a thread that doesnt concern Turks, he invents imaginary seminars about the Turks, he claims to have seen the whole Central Asia yet he doesnt know the people there are mostly Mongoloid, he posted a few times in Turkish forum for no reasons and has been caught "understanting" a post which was completely in Turkish. He isnt neutral about the issues concerning Turks, he once said something like "Why do you keep calling me Turk, not hating Turks doesnt mean that you are a Turk"... It is obvious that he is expressing his ideas by pretending to be from another country for to people give him credit.
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