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Was Brazil a spanish colony?

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Was Brazil a spanish colony?
    Posted: 29-Aug-2004 at 13:01
As for the dutch, they occupied the north west for some years, but were eventually expelled. As for them leaving influence, I don't know. Dutch presence was mostly military occupation. According to C.R. Boxer, one of the reasons why the dutch lost was because the Portuguese settled the country, while the Dutch just went there to fight, and then leave.


IIRC, the influence can still be noted in Recife, the 'Venice of Brasil' or whatever, some arcitecture stuff and what not. The Dutch didn't just go their to fight, this was an WIC (West Indies company) affair, they went there to make money.

Suriname is former Dutch Guyana, been indipendant since 1975.
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  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2004 at 18:32

Originally posted by Cywr

IIRC, the influence can still be noted in Recife, the 'Venice of Brasil' or whatever, some arcitecture stuff and what not.

You're right. I just read a few things about Recife. They did influence urban architecture (particularly, Nassau was responsible for the construction of a few bridges).

 

The Dutch didn't just go their to fight, this was an WIC (West Indies company) affair, they went there to make money.
That was precisly Boxer's point. They were only interested in making money, whereas the Portuguese wanted to settle down.

Interestingly enough, I found this:

Ao longo desse quarto de sculo, os sete anos chamados "tempo de Nassau" (1637 a 1644) marcaram o apogeu do domnio holands no Brasil, originando a crena segundo a qual o destino do pas seria mais nobre caso o projeto colonial da Companhia das ndias Ocidentais fosse mantido. No entanto, o fato que, como o prprio Nassau previra, menos de um ano depois de sua partida - antes da qual o conde fez voar "um couro de boi cheio de palha preso por fios que a noite escondia -, azedou-se de vez o doce Brasil holands.
In other words, it was all fine for the Dutch as long as Nassau was there, but as soon as he left, Dutch Brasil went to hell. The WIC got too greedy

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 15:34
Originally posted by Cywr

A deal with Spain was then made that effectivly divided the whole worldinto two halves, one for Spain and one for Portugal.


The Treaty of Tordesillas.

For a while, the Spanish and Portugese crowns were united, bringing Portugals empire under indirect Spainsh rule


Right, Brazil was part of a "greater" Spanish Empire. But do take into account that the idea of Spain at the time was different to the modern nation-state which is Spain.

The king was, officially, King of Aragon, King of Castilla y Len, King of Portugal, etc. Aka "King of the Spains", not Spain.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 15:43
Originally posted by Cywr

Whilst the Spanish/Portugese did appeal to the pope, i've heard asomewhat more cynical approach that suggested that the Pope was intheir pockets, that the deal was already made, and the Pope's approval just a formality.Not sure though.


The Pope was a Borgia, which is the Italianized name of the family Borja, from Gandia, Spain. No surprise then.
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  Quote lars573 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 00:43

Taken from http://www.geocities.com/eurprin/castile.html

 

1579-1688

King of Castile, Leon, Aragon, both Sicilies, Jerusalem, Portugal, Navarra, Granada, Toledo, Valencia, Galicia, Majorca, Sevilla, Sardinia, Cordova, Corsica, Murcia, Jaen, the Algarve, Algeciras, Gibraltar, the Canary Islands,

the Eastern & Western Indias, the Islands & Mainland of the Ocean sea;
Archduke of Austria;
Duke of Burgundy, Brabant, Milan;
Count of Habsburg, Flanders, Tyrol, Barcelona;
Lord of Biscay, Molina;
 
This is the offical list of royal titles held by the spanish Habsburgs form the dates indicated. It lists all of the holdings of the spanish royal family.
 
It also says
 Added:

- Habsburg

- Portugal
King Philip II forced the Portuguese to recognized him as King of Portugal (1581).

@ Replaced

- "the Indias" with "the Eastern & Western Indias"
 
 
The map below shows europe after the end of the 30 years war in 1648. I posted it so that the above list of titles makes sense. The map is coloured so that holdings of the same royal family are shown in the same colour. Spainish Habsburgs are dark green, Austrian habsburg are the lighter pink colour, papal enclaves are brown. Some inaccuracies are that portugal is a differant colour and that it's called kingdom of spain not the spains. The reason Tyrol, Habsburg, and Austria are on the title list is because of a wierd german inherritance tradition where by the whole family is lord of a fief and all members bare the title of that fief. That is all members of the Habsburg family have the title ArchDuke of Austria Princely count of Tyrol and Count of Habsburg.
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 15:32

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice map!

(Sorry, I could not help to say it) Apologies.

About Tordesillas Treaty: It can look a bit strange to divide the world in two parts and saying half for you and half for me but consider:

1) Portugal and Spain were the only maritime power: France, Holland, England... meant nothing at this particular moment.

2) Obviously, other Christian powers were not included in the deal. They were not saying England for you, France for me.

3) The main objective was avoiding quarrel about the spheres of influence. In that sense the treaty was successful: Spain and Portugal did not have any war until 1580 (a phoney war) or even 1640. Meanwhile most of the wars between European powers from, say, 1600 to 1945 were a result of the competence for colonies.

 



Edited by Catn
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  Quote lars573 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 18:28
Why thank you i have over a dosen links to site like the one where that map came from and where the spainish royal titles came from.
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