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Who are the Lombards?
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Ponce de Leon View Drop Down
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Posts: 2967 		  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who are the Lombards?
    Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 00:01
    I have heard of Lombardi and such. But who are the Lombards? Where did they come from? And what significant impact did they have on World History?
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Herschel View Drop Down
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Posts: 172 		  Quote Herschel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 00:40
The Lombards were the last Germanic tribe to invade Roman lands, which they did in the middle 6th century after the reconquest of Justinian. They originated somewhere in modern day Poland and migrated southward towards present day Hungary and Austria before storming into the Italian Peninsula. Comprised of only a few hundred thousand men, women, and children, they were one of the smallest tribes to enter Roman territory, and their aim was not to merely conquer, but to settle.

The Eastern Roman Empire was able to secure the Tiber River, Rome, Ravenna, and southern Italy. The rest of Italy was divided between small Lombardi states. Most of their influence, however, remained in the Northern Po region close to the Alps where they adopted the Latin language and integrated with the locals. The modern state of Lombardi in Italy is by far the wealthiest region in Italy and among the richest in all of Europe.
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 03:52
Originally posted by Herschel

The Lombards were the last Germanic tribe to invade Roman lands, which they did in the middle 6th century after the reconquest of Justinian. They originated somewhere in modern day Poland and migrated southward towards present day Hungary and Austria before storming into the Italian Peninsula. Comprised of only a few hundred thousand men, women, and children, they were one of the smallest tribes to enter Roman territory, and their aim was not to merely conquer, but to settle.

The Eastern Roman Empire was able to secure the Tiber River, Rome, Ravenna, and southern Italy. The rest of Italy was divided between small Lombardi states. Most of their influence, however, remained in the Northern Po region close to the Alps where they adopted the Latin language and integrated with the locals. The modern state of Lombardi in Italy is by far the wealthiest region in Italy and among the richest in all of Europe.
 
Herschel has already answered all the principal questions, so just a couple of remarks.
The origins of the Lombrads are as with most migrating Germanic tribes somewhat in the dark, apart from the mentioned Poland, Scandinavia, Germany, CSR or Austria could also be called the homeland of the Lombards, who gained their identity on their travels, absorbing and mixing with other Germanic tribes.
The success of their conquest of Italy at the end of the 6th century and the relative long duration of their rule, whose slow ending was initiated by Charlemagne's invasion at the end of the 7th century, although semi-independet Lombard dukedoms survived for another 200 years, was indeed the result of the Lombards willingness to mix with the existing population and to absorb the existing culture.
They must have learned their lesson from the Ostrogoths, whose policy of strict etnic and cultural segregation whilst ruling Italy, no doubt contributed to their rapid downfall after the end of Theoderic's reign.
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Posts: 984 		  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 21:35
Originally posted by Herschel

The Lombards were the last Germanic tribe to invade Roman lands, which they did in the middle 6th century after the reconquest of Justinian. They originated somewhere in modern day Poland and migrated southward towards present day Hungary and Austria before storming into the Italian Peninsula. Comprised of only a few hundred thousand men, women, and children, they were one of the smallest tribes to enter Roman territory, and their aim was not to merely conquer, but to settle.

 
A few hundred thousands? Could be like 200,000 or 300, 000. This is an awfully large number for those days. And they could constitute a majority in the area of Lombardy, which is very doubtful. I would say 50,000 is more a reasonable number.
 
As far as I know, the Salian Franks moving in Gaul accounted for around 200,000-300,000 (not accounting the large number of Franks that had settled in Gaul prior to the invasion) . Half a million at most was the Franks that settled in Northern France. That was the only large scale migration.
 
The Eastern Roman Empire was able to secure the Tiber River, Rome, Ravenna, and southern Italy. The rest of Italy was divided between small Lombardi states. Most of their influence, however, remained in the Northern Po region close to the Alps where they adopted the Latin language and integrated with the locals. The modern state of Lombardi in Italy is by far the wealthiest region in Italy and among the richest in all of Europe.
 
Lombards consider themselves to be of Gallic heritage mostly, not of Germanic or Latins as you would like to think. The Legga Nords claim their celtic heritage for Northern Italy.


Edited by Quetzalcoatl - 23-Jul-2006 at 21:40
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Posts: 172 		  Quote Herschel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 22:19
First of all, the Lega Nords are a racist break-off group who claim both Germanic and Celtic heritage. (Celtic for its presence before Roman conquest, and Germanic for its settlement by the Lombards) Second, the Lombards were most certainly a German people with German culture. Of course the entire migration of the Germanic peoples assimilated with settled Celts and were influenced by them, but this is the first I've ever heard of them claiming Gallic ancestory.

The Franks settled Gaul while retaining lands east of the Rhine. The Marovingians controlled an area that stretched from the Atlantic to central Germany. Their migration was large PLUS they had a large population that remained in their homeland. The Lombards moved with family, food, and cattle. If the Italian penninsula harbored 5-7 million people, I think a population of 250,000 is not absurd.


Edited by Herschel - 23-Jul-2006 at 22:26
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Posts: 984 		  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2006 at 00:54
Originally posted by Herschel

First of all, the Lega Nords are a racist break-off group who claim both Germanic and Celtic heritage. (Celtic for its presence before Roman conquest, and Germanic for its settlement by the Lombards) Second, the Lombards were most certainly a German people with German culture. Of course the entire migration of the Germanic peoples assimilated with settled Celts and were influenced by them, but this is the first I've ever heard of them claiming Gallic ancestory.

The Franks settled Gaul while retaining lands east of the Rhine. The Marovingians controlled an area that stretched from the Atlantic to central Germany. Their migration was large PLUS they had a large population that remained in their homeland. The Lombards moved with family, food, and cattle. If the Italian penninsula harbored 5-7 million people, I think a population of 250,000 is not absurd.
 
Hmm, the Lega Nord don't claim Germanic heritage but Celtic heritage. I want to see you source of 250,000, which from my POV is absurb.
 
As for the Merovingians (which were Salian Franks); the Franks were divided into two groups: the Salian Franks inhabiting the area of Belgium and the Netherland, with settlers already in Northern Gaul prior to the invasian; and the Ripudian Frank, who lived east of the Rhine. Clearly these two groups were different. Merovingian weren't Germanic but mixed Germano-Gallo-Romans and were catholics while the Ripudian Franks were Germanic and Aryan Christians. Not to mix these two people together. The migrants transformed into a different entity and had little in common with the people that stayed east of the Rhine. THe Merovingians and Caroligians were the nucleus of french society, whose capital were around Paris (Saint-Denis) while the "Franks" east of the Rhine were a race apart, which was later conquered by Clovis and his descendents.
 
This was the situation prior to the fall of the Kingdom of Syagrius. Clearly, the Ripudian Frank took no part in the invasion. The Salians Frank, after they mixed up with the Gallo-romans, proceeded to chase all barbarians out of France and there was an aggressive campaign to expand east.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Quetzalcoatl - 24-Jul-2006 at 01:13
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