Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Top 100 Generals

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 5253545556 128>
Author
DSMyers1 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel

Suspended

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 603
  Quote DSMyers1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Top 100 Generals
    Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 00:05
In an effort to bring further order out of the chaos on this list, please review the following tiers.  I tried to detect the breaking point between one level of general and the next.  Please help with whether a general needs to move up or down a tier, and, most of all, who of Tier 5 belongs in the top 100.  I have far more there than can possibly fit.  I doubt many if any of Tier 4 will drop all the way out of the top 100--but those in tier 5 are fair game.  Tier 4 is also, if you can make a good enough case!  So without further ado, here is the list, sorted by tiers:

Tier 1: Greatest of all
Rank Name
1 Alexander the Great
2 Napoleon Bonaparte
3 Temujin (Genghis Khan)
4 Hannibal Barca

Tier 2: Great Generals
5 John Churchill (Duke of Marlborough)
6 Aleksandr Suvorov
7 Jan ika
8 Belisarios
9 Timur
10 Gustav II Adolf
11 Scipio Africanus the Older
12 Gaius Julius Caesar
13 Subotai
14 Frederick II of Prussia
15 Eugene of Savoy
16 Sir Arthur Wellesley (Duke of Wellington)
17 Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne de Turenne

Tier 3: Exceptional Generals
18 Heraclius
19 Khalid ibn al-Walid
20 Raimondo Montecuccoli
21 Gaius Marius
22 Cyrus the Great
23 Maurice, comte de Saxe
24 Robert Clive
25 Erich von Manstein
26 Thutmose III
27 Heinz Wilhelm Guderian
28 Selim I
29 Philip II of Macedon
30 Louis Nicholas Davout
31 Hn Xn
32 Maurice of Nassau
33 Louis II de Bourbon, Prince de Cond
34 George Kastrioti (Skanderbeg)
35 Nadir Shah
36 Stefan cel Mare (Stephen III)
37 Trần Hưng Đạo
38 Shivaji Bhosle
39 Winfield Scott
40 Gonzalo Fernndez de Crdoba (El Gran Capitn)
41 Epaminondas
42 Robert E. Lee
43 Chandragupta Maurya

Tier 4: Excellent Generals
44 Lucius Cornelius Sulla
45 Hamilcar Barca
46 Helmuth Karl Bernhard von Moltke
47 Mehmed II
48 Leo III the Isaurian
49 Tokugawa Ieyasu
50 Yue Fei
51 Tiglath-Pileser III
52 Babur
53 Edmund Allenby, 1st Viscount Allenby
54 Janos Hunyadi
55 Duke of Parma (Alessandro Farnese)
56 Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson
57 Charles XII
58 Narses
59 Oda Nobunaga
60 Francesco I Sforza
61 Stanisław Koniecpolski
62 Louis Joseph de Bourbon, duc de Vendme
63 Aurelian (Lucius Domitius Aurelianus)
64 Suleiman I
65 Nurhaci
66 Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck
67 Georgy Zhukov
68 Alexius I Komnenos
69 Claude-Louis-Hector de Villars
70 Aleksandr Vasilevsky
71 Toyotomi Hideyoshi
72 Albrecht Wallenstein
73 Jan III Sobieski
74 Qi Jiguang
75 Simeon I the Great
76 Constantine I the Great
77 Andr Massna
78 Robert Guiscard
79 Erwin Rommel
80 Emperor Taizong of Tang (Lĭ ShMn)

Tier 5: In the top 100 or not?
81 Jebe
82 David
83 Shaka Zulu
84 Baibars
85 Flavius Stilicho
86 Erich Ludendorff
87 Lautaro (toqui)
88 Alp Arslan
89 Charlemagne
90 Ulysses Simpson Grant
91 Kangxi
92 Carl Gustav Mannerheim
93 Xu Da
94 Franois Henri de Montmorency-Bouteville (Luxembourg)
95 Nikephoros II Phokas
96 Nguyen Hue
97 Basil II
98 Shapur I
99 Samudragupta
100 Johan t'Serclaes, Count of Tilly
101 Robert the Bruce
102 Sonni Ali
103 Marcus Claudius Marcellus
104 Gotthard Heinrici
105 Andreas Prokop (Prokop the Great)
106 Henry V
107 Wolter von Plettenberg
108 Mustafa Kemal
109 Hernn Corts
110 Bayinnaung
111 Jalaluddin Muhammad Akbar
112 Alexander Nevsky
113 Edward III
114 Jean Lannes
115 Mahmud of Ghazni
116 Pyrrhus of Epirus
117 Konstantin Rokossovsky
118 Nathanael Greene
119 Ahmad Shah Durrani
120 Sebastien Le prestre de Vauban
121 Archduke Charles of Austria
122 James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
123 Sher Shah Suri
124 Lus Alves de Lima e Silva
125 Yusuf ibn Tashfin
126 Rajaraja Chola I
127 Sun Tzu
128 George S. Patton
129 Gerd von Rundstedt
130 Nikola Zrinski
131 James FitzJames, 1st Duke of Berwick
132 Joseph Radetzky von Radetz
133 William the Conqueror
134 Pyotr Bagration
135 Naresuan
136 Ernst Gideon Freiherr von Laudon
137 Muhammad Shaybani
138 Lucius Septimius Severus
139 Takeda Shingen
140 Ban Chao
141 George Washington
142 William Joseph Slim
143 Judar Pasha
144 Richard I
145 Oliver Cromwell
146 Saladin 
147 Attila the Hun
148 William T. Sherman
149 Nathan B. Forrest
150 Trajan
151 Frederick Barbarossa
152 Ibrahim Pasha
153 Cao Cao



Edited by DSMyers1 - 02-Apr-2008 at 00:07
Back to Top
DSMyers1 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel

Suspended

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 603
  Quote DSMyers1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 00:16
To help see if an individual nation's generals are ranked correctly against each other:
Rank Name Country
119 Ahmad Shah Durrani Afghan
123 Sher Shah Suri Afghan
34 George Kastrioti (Skanderbeg) Albania
125 Yusuf ibn Tashfin Almoravid
19 Khalid ibn al-Walid Arabs
146 Saladin  Arabs
169 Jose de San Martin Argentina
51 Tiglath-Pileser III Assyria
15 Eugene of Savoy Austria
20 Raimondo Montecuccoli Austria
72 Albrecht Wallenstein Austria
100 Johan t'Serclaes, Count of Tilly Austria
121 Archduke Charles of Austria Austria
132 Joseph Radetzky von Radetz Austria
136 Ernst Gideon Freiherr von Laudon Austria
135 Naresuan Ayutthaya
7 Jan ika Bohemia
105 Andreas Prokop (Prokop the Great) Bohemia
124 Lus Alves de Lima e Silva Brazil
75 Simeon I the Great Bulgaria
110 Bayinnaung Burma
8 Belisarios Byzantines
18 Heraclius Byzantines
48 Leo III the Isaurian Byzantines
58 Narses Byzantines
68 Alexius I Komnenos Byzantines
95 Nikephoros II Phokas Byzantines
97 Basil II Byzantines

155 Arthur Currie Canada
4 Hannibal Barca Carthage
45 Hamilcar Barca Carthage
31 Hn Xn China
50 Yue Fei China
74 Qi Jiguang China
80 Emperor Taizong of Tang (Lĭ ShMn) China
91 Kangxi China
93 Xu Da China
127 Sun Tzu China
140 Ban Chao China
153 Cao Cao China
174 Wanyan Aguda China
126 Rajaraja Chola I Chola
42 Robert E. Lee Confederate
56 Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson Confederate
149 Nathan B. Forrest Confederate
130 Nikola Zrinski Croatia
26 Thutmose III Egypt
152 Ibrahim Pasha Egypt
5 John Churchill (Duke of Marlborough) England
16 Sir Arthur Wellesley (Duke of Wellington) England
24 Robert Clive England
53 Edmund Allenby, 1st Viscount Allenby England
106 Henry V England
113 Edward III England
122 James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose England
142 William Joseph Slim England
144 Richard I England
145 Oliver Cromwell England
164 John Moore England
168 Charles Mordaunt, 3rd Earl of Peterborough England
92 Carl Gustav Mannerheim Finland
2 Napoleon Bonaparte France
17 Henri de La Tour d'Auvergne de Turenne France
23 Maurice, comte de Saxe France
30 Louis Nicholas Davout France
33 Louis II de Bourbon, Prince de Cond France
62 Louis Joseph de Bourbon, duc de Vendme France
69 Claude-Louis-Hector de Villars France
77 Andr Massna France
89 Charlemagne France
94 Franois Henri de Montmorency-Bouteville (Luxembourg) France
114 Jean Lannes France
120 Sebastien Le prestre de Vauban France
131 James FitzJames, 1st Duke of Berwick France
171 Bertrand du Guesclin France
175 Jean-Baptiste Eugne Estienne France

25 Erich von Manstein Germany
27 Heinz Wilhelm Guderian Germany
66 Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck Germany
79 Erwin Rommel Germany
86 Erich Ludendorff Germany
104 Gotthard Heinrici Germany
129 Gerd von Rundstedt Germany
151 Frederick Barbarossa Germany
161 Arminius Germany
115 Mahmud of Ghazni Ghazni
41 Epaminondas Greece
116 Pyrrhus of Epirus Greece
147 Attila the Hun Hun 
54 Janos Hunyadi Hungary
43 Chandragupta Maurya India
99 Samudragupta India
82 David Israel
158 Joshua Israel
157 Giuseppe Garibaldi Italy
49 Tokugawa Ieyasu Japan
59 Oda Nobunaga Japan
71 Toyotomi Hideyoshi Japan
139 Takeda Shingen Japan
172 Yel Dashi Kara Khitai
167 Vladimir II Monomakh Kiev
176 Eulji Mundeok Korea
177 Piye Kush
166 Kujula Kadphises Kushan
107 Wolter von Plettenberg Livonian Order

1 Alexander the Great Macedonia
29 Philip II of Macedon Macedonia
84 Baibars Mamluke
65 Nurhaci Manchu
87 Lautaro (toqui) Mapuche
38 Shivaji Bhosle Maratha
60 Francesco I Sforza Milan
36 Stefan cel Mare (Stephen III) Moldavia
3 Temujin (Genghis Khan) Mongols
13 Subotai Mongols
81 Jebe Mongols
143 Judar Pasha Morocco
52 Babur Mughal
111 Jalaluddin Muhammad Akbar Mughal
32 Maurice of Nassau Netherlands
78 Robert Guiscard Normandy
133 William the Conqueror Normandy
28 Selim I Ottomans
47 Mehmed II Ottomans
64 Suleiman I Ottomans
22 Cyrus the Great Persia
35 Nadir Shah Persia
98 Shapur I Persia
61 Stanisław Koniecpolski Poland
73 Jan III Sobieski Poland
165 Jan Karol Chodkiewicz Poland
14 Frederick II of Prussia Prussia
46 Helmuth Karl Bernhard von Moltke Prussia
11 Scipio Africanus the Older Rome
12 Gaius Julius Caesar Rome
21 Gaius Marius Rome
44 Lucius Cornelius Sulla Rome
63 Aurelian (Lucius Domitius Aurelianus) Rome
76 Constantine I the Great Rome
85 Flavius Stilicho Rome
103 Marcus Claudius Marcellus Rome
138 Lucius Septimius Severus Rome
150 Trajan Rome
156 Scipio Africanus the Younger Rome
163 Gnaeus Domitius Corbulo Rome
173 Quintus Sertorius Rome



Edited by DSMyers1 - 02-Apr-2008 at 00:19
Back to Top
DSMyers1 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel

Suspended

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 603
  Quote DSMyers1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 00:22
The last bit of that list (server refused the whole thing)
6 Aleksandr Suvorov Russia
67 Georgy Zhukov Russia
70 Aleksandr Vasilevsky Russia
112 Alexander Nevsky Russia
117 Konstantin Rokossovsky Russia
134 Pyotr Bagration Russia
160 Aleksandr Vasilevsky Russia
101 Robert the Bruce Scotland
102 Sonni Ali Songhai
40 Gonzalo Fernndez de Crdoba (El Gran Capitn) Spain
55 Duke of Parma (Alessandro Farnese) Spain
109 Hernn Corts Spain
10 Gustav II Adolf Sweden
57 Charles XII Sweden
108 Mustafa Kemal Turkey
9 Timur Turks
88 Alp Arslan Turks
39 Winfield Scott United States
90 Ulysses Simpson Grant United States
118 Nathanael Greene United States
128 George S. Patton United States
141 George Washington United States
148 William T. Sherman United States
137 Muhammad Shaybani Uzbek
37 Trần Hưng Đạo Vietnam
96 Nguyen Hue Vietnam
159 Vo Nguyen Giap Vietnam
83 Shaka Zulu Zulu
Back to Top
Challenger2 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 28-Apr-2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 508
  Quote Challenger2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 12:38
Originally posted by DSMyers1

Originally posted by Challenger2

Originally posted by deadkenny

... Of course, I still have a problem with trying to assign meaningful 'relative' rankings to leaders in different 'positions' (i.e. with different 'levels' of authority).


For once, I agree with DeadKenny. Generals that never held independent command, should not be ranked as highly as those that did, regardless of what they might have achieved in this battle or that. Those that could call on the whole resources of a state, should be ranked lower than those who couldn't and had to make do with what they were given when we compare achievement.


= "Hannibal for #1!!!!!!"
 
 LOL DSmyers1, I think you must have put the Caps Lock on inadvertently when you wrote this; the second 1 in 11, has turned into exclamation marks, or did you mean you want Hannibal to be demoted to 1,111,111th place? That's fair. Tongue
Back to Top
DSMyers1 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel

Suspended

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 603
  Quote DSMyers1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 12:43
Originally posted by Challenger2

Originally posted by DSMyers1

Originally posted by Challenger2

Originally posted by deadkenny

... Of course, I still have a problem with trying to assign meaningful 'relative' rankings to leaders in different 'positions' (i.e. with different 'levels' of authority).


For once, I agree with DeadKenny. Generals that never held independent command, should not be ranked as highly as those that did, regardless of what they might have achieved in this battle or that. Those that could call on the whole resources of a state, should be ranked lower than those who couldn't and had to make do with what they were given when we compare achievement.


= "Hannibal for #1!!!!!!"
 
 LOL DSmyers1, I think you must have put the Caps Lock on inadvertently when you wrote this; the second 1 in 11, has turned into exclamation marks, or did you mean you want Hannibal to be demoted to 1,111,111th place? That's fair. Tongue


"Those that could call on the whole resources of a state, should be ranked lower than those who couldn't and had to make do with what they were given when we compare achievement."

That is precisely the argument of those who want Hannibal higher, since he was the greatest general who wasn't also a ruler. Wink
Back to Top
Challenger2 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 28-Apr-2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 508
  Quote Challenger2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 12:49
Ernst Gideon Freiherr von Laudon. How come the General that regularly spanked Frederick the Great during the Seven Years War is so far down the list. Frederick even wanted to hire him after the war, such was the respect he had for him. Either bring Frederick down or bring Laudon up a lot higher. 
Back to Top
Challenger2 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 28-Apr-2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 508
  Quote Challenger2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 12:54
Originally posted by DSMyers1

Originally posted by Challenger2

Originally posted by DSMyers1

Originally posted by Challenger2

Originally posted by deadkenny

... Of course, I still have a problem with trying to assign meaningful 'relative' rankings to leaders in different 'positions' (i.e. with different 'levels' of authority).


For once, I agree with DeadKenny. Generals that never held independent command, should not be ranked as highly as those that did, regardless of what they might have achieved in this battle or that. Those that could call on the whole resources of a state, should be ranked lower than those who couldn't and had to make do with what they were given when we compare achievement.


= "Hannibal for #1!!!!!!"
 
 LOL DSmyers1, I think you must have put the Caps Lock on inadvertently when you wrote this; the second 1 in 11, has turned into exclamation marks, or did you mean you want Hannibal to be demoted to 1,111,111th place? That's fair. Tongue


"Those that could call on the whole resources of a state, should be ranked lower than those who couldn't and had to make do with what they were given when we compare achievement."

That is precisely the argument of those who want Hannibal higher, since he was the greatest general who wasn't also a ruler. Wink
 
Yes, but everyone conveniently forgets the resources of the "Barcid Empire" in Spain, Hannibal's own "kingdom". Did he go cap in hand to Carthage to raise capital for his initial invasion force, or did he recruit using the massive resources in Spain? He certainly minted his own money. Don't get me started....Big%20smile
Back to Top
Challenger2 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 28-Apr-2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 508
  Quote Challenger2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 13:02
BTW Montrose is still Scottish. I'm still surprised the Scotts on this forum haven't lynched you for classing him as English.
 
Heinrici, from what I know of him is too low, so is Lettow-Vorbek, Allenby, too high. Wellington still too low and Frederick tG too high.
Back to Top
Challenger2 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar
Suspended

Joined: 28-Apr-2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 508
  Quote Challenger2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 13:13
Originally posted by antonioM

Another thing, it was the Prince of Orange who was at Quatre-Bras with his Dutch army, not Wellington. Wellington came late. It is to him that we should give credit that Blucher's army was not annihilated. The Dutch army prevented what would have been a decisive French victory. It should have been a decisive Allied victory at Ligny if Wellington had done his homework. 
 
I wonder how Waterloo would have gone with the Prince of Orange in command, instead of Wellington?


Edited by Challenger2 - 02-Apr-2008 at 13:13
Back to Top
Peteratwar View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 17-Apr-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 591
  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 13:34
Truth is after the first hour when the vastly outnumbered Dutch forces were being driven back, Wellington was there in command for the rest of the day until the French were driven back.
 
Judging by the mistakes the Prince of Orange made both at Quatre Bras and at Waterloo the result would have been disastrous. Until Wellington arrived to take command the Prince of Orange was in fact in command of the whole army much to the horror of the British contingent!!!


Edited by Peteratwar - 02-Apr-2008 at 13:36
Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5221
  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 18:06
Originally posted by Samara


"In 1813 he commanded the Hamburg military district, and defended Hamburg, a poorly fortified and provisioned city, through a long siege, only surrendering on the direct order of the new King Louis XVIII,"

wikipdia

I have other sources but it just book. He never lost a battle.


he lost a lot of battles, he lost Lneburg, Ghrde, he failed to link up with Ney & Oudinot on their drive on Berlin, he lost control of Hamburg itself to a raiding force of a few Cossacks that occupied the city for several days before Davout even noticed it. also he wasn't in charge of the northernmost corps'.
Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5221
  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 18:10
Originally posted by DSMyers1

In an effort to bring further order out of the chaos on this list, please review the following tiers.  I tried to detect the breaking point between one level of general and the next.  Please help with whether a general needs to move up or down a tier, and, most of all, who of Tier 5 belongs in the top 100.  I have far more there than can possibly fit.  I doubt many if any of Tier 4 will drop all the way out of the top 100--but those in tier 5 are fair game.  Tier 4 is also, if you can make a good enough case!  So without further ado, here is the list, sorted by tiers:



remove Turenne from tier 2
khalid bin walid is better than tier 3
remove Manstein & Tuhtmose from tier 3
Back to Top
Temujin View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Sirdar Bahadur

Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Eurasia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5221
  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 18:30
Originally posted by DSMyers1

To help see if an individual nation's generals are ranked correctly against each other:


some corrections i suggest:

Sher Shah Suri was not Afghan, he was ruler of the Delhi Sultanate.
Saladin likewise wasn't Arab but ruler of Egypt & Syria.
Tilly wasn't Austrian either, he was Imperial and if anyhting Bavaria or Catholic league would fit.
Wanyan Aguda isn't Chinese either, he is Jurchen (Manchu)
"Maurice, Comte de Saxe" should be called Moritz von Sachsen or Moritz of Saxony (unless English don't know Moritz and use Maurice instead)....
Charlemagne wasn't French either, he was Frank
Barbarossa wasn't German either, he was ruler of the HRE (Tilly could belong to this group)
Arminius was from soem funky early Germanic trieb that was wipped out, but not German either.
all the "Russian" ww2 generals should be Soviet Union, not Russia as some of them are not ethnically Russian (Rokossovsky, Vasilevsky). Vasilevsky is listed twice btw (70 & 160). Alexander Nevsky wasn't Russian either then, as Monomakh was listed as Kievan.

btw, i just noticed. on the same note as above, is there a reason for not having any British generals? Wellesley for example isn't exactly English...


Edited by Temujin - 02-Apr-2008 at 18:32
Back to Top
Al Jassas View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 07-Aug-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1810
  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 18:37
Still think that Temujin is grossly overrated. Also several other generals especially of the Arab conquests are not included despite they conquered much more lands and against much formidable enemies than many on the list.
 
Al-Jassas
Back to Top
DSMyers1 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel

Suspended

Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 603
  Quote DSMyers1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 18:58
Temujin, I know what they really are--but if the catagories are too small it doesn't do any good to arrange like this.
 
Al-Jassas--I need more sources for Arabs!  All I've added from your suggestions was Baibars, IIRC.
Back to Top
Al Jassas View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 07-Aug-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1810
  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 19:31
Hello DS
 
i posted a post full of link but it went missing in the cyber space:
 
1- Muhammad bin Al-Qasim: the 17 year old kid who conquered all of Sindh o the foothills of the Himalayas, his troops reach Kashmir. he marched his troops from Basra to Multan, a distance of 2300 km, conquering all the land in between and defeating every enemy and much of the time at a great disadvantage:
2- Musa ibn Nusair: The guy conquered and pascified north Africa for ever. From Algeria to the Atlantic he crushed the guerillas and then empolyed them to conquere Spain despite he was in his 70s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musa_ibn_Nusair
Al-jassas
Back to Top
Jonathan4290 View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 03-Mar-2008
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 185
  Quote Jonathan4290 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 02:46
A few things I've got to say :)
 
Are there enough reliable sources to place Epaminondas so high up or could he be overrated by ancient greek historians?
 
Allenby was a good general and all but it seems to me he was more of a "soldiers love him for more than he is" kind of general. I'd place him quite a few spots down, I mean he was facing the Turks at their worst point.
 
I'm a huge fan of Slim because he was a fine general whether he was losing, stalemated or winning. I think he deserves a spot in the 90s.
 
Currie is a good choice for Canada, fairly ranked as well, atleast we got one in the top 200.
 
I think we may be ranking Caesar too high up by blurring his political achievements with his military but I see him somewhere in the 10s and 20s.
 
Giap at 159?! Who else has decisvely defeated the Americans? And with peasants? Yeh, I know my argument will fall on deaf ears :(
 
Not even a mention of Mao? After the Long March he had like what 6,000 soldiers and ended up crushing the Nationalist Army. I think with time his legacy in On Guerrilla Warfare will surpass Sun Tzu's The Art of War.
 
List is still getting better with every edit though, nice job.
Like great battles? How about when they're animated for easy viewing?
Visit my site, The Art of Battle: Animated Battle Maps at www.theartofbattle.com.
Back to Top
antonioM View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 26-Mar-2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 69
  Quote antonioM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 04:59
I wonder how Waterloo would have gone with the Prince of Orange in command, instead of Wellington?

Probably just the same. Take the high slope and hold on to it as much as possible.

The Prince of Orange and his vastly outnumbered Dutch army was able to hold off the French until reinforcements arrived.

Wellington was barely able to hold off the French at Waterloo until reinforcements arrived despite enjoying the high slope, three fortifications and an exhausted enemy equal in number.

I have a what-if scenario. In the Peninsular War, what if Wellington did not enjoy

1) Spanish guerrillas and population as allies
2) Spain's mountains
3) a small army that he could mold to his likeness,
4) the French making Wellington its #2 priority instead of the guerrillas
5) the French generals having no intelligence on him that he had on the French
6) the French treating the Peninsular War its undivided attention
7) the French having no good troops, especially good cavalry to attack the high slope that Wellington so loved
8) the French not handicapped by supply and communication problems because of risk of guerilla attacks

I am willing to bet that with any one of these 8 conditions reversed, Wellington wouldn't last long and would be no more than a footnote today. It wasn't a fair fight.

Back to Top
Peteratwar View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 17-Apr-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 591
  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 08:27
Originally posted by antonioM

I wonder how Waterloo would have gone with the Prince of Orange in command, instead of Wellington?

Probably just the same. Take the high slope and hold on to it as much as possible.

The Prince of Orange and his vastly outnumbered Dutch army was able to hold off the French until reinforcements arrived.

Wellington was barely able to hold off the French at Waterloo until reinforcements arrived despite enjoying the high slope, three fortifications and an exhausted enemy equal in number.

I have a what-if scenario. In the Peninsular War, what if Wellington did not enjoy

1) Spanish guerrillas and population as allies
2) Spain's mountains
3) a small army that he could mold to his likeness,
4) the French making Wellington its #2 priority instead of the guerrillas
5) the French generals having no intelligence on him that he had on the French
6) the French treating the Peninsular War its undivided attention
7) the French having no good troops, especially good cavalry to attack the high slope that Wellington so loved
8) the French not handicapped by supply and communication problems because of risk of guerilla attacks

I am willing to bet that with any one of these 8 conditions reversed, Wellington wouldn't last long and would be no more than a footnote today. It wasn't a fair fight.

 
The Prince of Orange was basically a poor commander and wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes without Wellington or  the support of his good subordinates.
 
At Quatres Bras they had been forced back by the first French attack and if the French had not delayed would have been routed. As it was the French hesitated then Wellington arrived with the first of the reinforcements and took command.
 
At Waterloo, The French outnumbered Wellington. They were certainly not exhausted (don't know where you got that idea from) The French army was a cohesive well-trained force with a large number of veterans in the ranks elated over their earlier victory over the Prussians. Wellington's army was a mixture of various armies from various forces, many very undertrained and some prone to riding off in the middle of the battle.
 
Don't make so much of the high ground. It was hardly steep mountainsides but slopes. Less than Napoleon had faced in many other battles. The fortifications were only farmouses, hardly proper fortresses and very prone to being blasted by cannon fire. See the fate of La Haye Sainte.
 
Re Spain.
 
1. What do you think the Spanish were going to do, twiddle their thumbs ?  However
 
2. Spain suddenly turns flat ? Don't forget Castille is a plain. as are many other parts of Spain
 
3. Are you giving him a large army?  Agreed he never had a big army. He was always outnumbered by the French
 
4. Wellington and his army was always the number one priority of the French. They had to defeat him to win. The guerillas could not have done it on their own.
 
5. Each side still send out scouts.
 
6. Fair enough - see Lines of Torres Vedras. Also ignore the rest of Europe
 
7. The French did have good troops and cavalry
 
8. French always foraged for their supplies othere than that not much difference
 
Why you should be so eager to denigrate one of the finest generals of his age and that is by the acknowledgement of all his contemporaries British or foreign including Napoleon himself I fail toi understand
 
BTW War is NOT about having a fair fight!!!


Edited by Peteratwar - 03-Apr-2008 at 10:41
Back to Top
Al Jassas View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 07-Aug-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1810
  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 09:35
Hello to you all
 
Here are other Arab and muslims generals that I think deserve more appreciation:
 
2- Amr ibn Al-As: He is considered by the majority of muslims historians as the second best commander ever and put him always behind Khalid. his greatest achievement was the conquest of Egypt by just 4000 men reinforced lated to 20 thousand despite facing stiff resistance from the 30 thousand Byzantines. he managed to defeat them again and take back Alexandria despite having no siege engines through an ingenious infiltration through the wall by a group of Fidayyeen:
2-Uqba ibn Nafi: the first conqueror of north Africa. With just 20 000 men he conquered all the way from Tripolitana, modern day Libyan Tripoli, to the Atlantic. He distroyed every opposition and managed to secure Berber help only to be betrayed by Kusailah:
3- Al-Numan ibn Muqarrin: One of the most underrated generals of all times, he was the man responsible for finishing the Sassanids once and for all at Nihawand. He began and completed the conquest of Persia proper after Iraq and Ahvaz were pascified and his troops reached to Khorasan and defeated all the remnants of the Persians. He recruited many of the Persian cataphracts into the army despite being not muslims so as to secure their loyalty and all of them became muslims in a few years:
4-Yazid ibn Al-Muhallab: One of the greatest commanders of the Ummayyads, his conquest of Mazandran finally annexed that region which defeated every Arab army that went their for 60 years.Before he came, Arabs would conquer the cities but defeated by guerilla action. He set out first to defeat the guerillas while laying siege on the cities and he defeated them and then finished the conquest. He later rebelled and nearly took on the whole empire but was defeated and killed:
 
Al-Jassas
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 5253545556 128>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.