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Einstein given too much credit. |
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Pieinsky 
Shogun 
Joined: 21-Apr-2006 Location: Ireland Online Status: Offline Posts: 207 |
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 Topic: Einstein given too much credit.Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 15:00 |
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I think einstein did make a huge contribution to the human speices however i disagree with the way we have made him into a god.
There are plenty of other human beings that made huge contibutions to our speices. All i hear is einstien when expressing high intelligence. I have even found out recently that there is an american show called little einsteins yet its mainly about music.
Why do i not read or hear kant, hume and other great minds name's being expressed as frequently as our einstein. I dont even think einstein made the largest good contribution to the human speices or he was the smartest human of the 21st centuary. I think hes just being put so high up mainly becasue
he is a jew. Of course intelligence is not to be admired in our scientific and cultural state as it is impossible at the moment to determine how much came naturaly and how much was worked for. Intelligince should not be admired, the determination and how much one does to improve their intellect should be admired
Anyway a little off topic, what do think my einstein critisism.
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Roadkill
Samurai 
Joined: 13-May-2006 Location: Norway Online Status: Offline Posts: 106 |
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Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 16:28 |
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-How dare you, infidel! I will smite you and great pain will occur, specifically around that bone which goes like -ick- when you move that arm like -humph- and..... Errr, yes?
-Now, do you realise how big an impact the theory of relativity made? It put all(Ok, not all..) the pieces together and unified many theories as well as correcting several mistakes. It's the single most revolutionary event in the 20th century(No, WWII was not 'revolutionary'  ) and it led to future breakthroughs heralding the digital age. Just about any electrical equipment we use today exists due to Einstein's theories. His name should be used in excess, just like that of Newton and other scientists who have made such an impact on human civilization. |
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955) |
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pikeshot1600
Tsar 
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
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Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 16:33 |
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He rightfully gets more credit than the rest of us here.
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Imperator Invictus
Caliph 
Retired AE Administrator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3151 |
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Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 19:14 |
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Times named him person of the century, which I think is justified. Einstein was the man.
Even if Einstein did not develop special and general relativity, he would still have been the second greatest scientist at least in the 20th century.
Obviously... Einstein lived in the 20th century, not the 21st. |
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Roadkill
Samurai
Joined: 13-May-2006 Location: Norway Online Status: Offline Posts: 106 |
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Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 19:16 |
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........BURN
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955) |
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Pieinsky
Shogun
Joined: 21-Apr-2006 Location: Ireland Online Status: Offline Posts: 207 |
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Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 20:39 |
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I think natural scientists are given too much credit compared to social sciences, artists of all types.
Social scientists allow us to understand human nature, which is key to happiness, I cant believe it, your well versed in the area of history yet you don't realise that societies were greatly defined by their understanding of the human psyce. I thought the purpose of life was to enjoy it as much as one can while taking a substatial amount of consideration to others who deserve it. Technollogy alone is not the only factor that determines human happiness.
Many nation share an equal technological level but some are more culturally backwards then others. What the hells the point of a country who is evile by definition(more evile then neighbours) building nuclear warheads when its people are psycotic, insesitive, question with red lights to a high degree. technollogy is not as important as it is conventially believed to be by humans. I rather have lived amongst the celts who were culturally superior to the vikings then the vikings who were technollogical superior but culturally inferior to the celts. However certain technologies allow certain cultural advancements.
I am sick of great natural scientists and great mathamatitions being made into Gods while great humans who dedicated their lives to other area's are made seem less important then natural scientists.
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Imperator Invictus
Caliph
Retired AE Administrator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3151 |
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Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 21:20 |
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Without the natural sciences, we wouldn't have this forum for you to express contempt for natural sciences. How's that?
 There are also a lot of great social scientists too, such as Keynes. They are also recognized. Edited by Imperator Invictus - 17-Jul-2006 at 21:23 |
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Pieinsky
Shogun
Joined: 21-Apr-2006 Location: Ireland Online Status: Offline Posts: 207 |
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Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 22:37 |
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I dont have a contempt for the natural sciences but i do have a contempt for the natural sciences being put over the social sciences in importance.
Edited by Pieinsky - 17-Jul-2006 at 22:38 |
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Northman
Tsar
Suspended Joined: 30-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4262 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 02:28 |
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The beneficial effects of natural science in a vast variety of areas, can hardly be overestimated - whereas social science, although admittedly inspirational for some, practically brought us nowhere.
Basically, we are the same babaric animals of war we were 3.000 years ago.
Edited by Northman - 18-Jul-2006 at 02:31 |
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gcle2003
King 
Suspended Joined: 06-Dec-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7035 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 04:51 |
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If a social scientist or an economist ever achieves in his field what Einstein achieved in his, then I've no doubt he will be similarly admired. It hasn't happened yet.
In the arts, doesn't Picasso (rightly enough) get something of the same kind of status (in the 20th century)?
Personally what really irritates me is the status given to Plato.
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Imperator Invictus
Caliph
Retired AE Administrator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3151 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 08:23 |
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What is "important" means different things to different people. But in a historical perspective, Natural science has definately been more influential in driving change. One way to look at it is that social science tries to understand the current human society, but that human society was built on natural science (technology). Civilization is founded on technology.
Without natural science, you would still be a caveman hunting deer with sticks and stones. Also, maybe you should let us know who you think is important if you think that Einstein was so unimportant. |
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edgewaters
Sultan 
Snake in the Grass-Banned Joined: 13-Mar-2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 2394 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 09:16 |
Eh? Relativity doesn't come into play very much with electronics. If there's a fellow who's primarily responsible for modern electrical equipment, it's Tesla. |
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malizai_
Sultan
Alcinous Joined: 05-Feb-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2252 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 09:46 |
true, the natural scientists have equiped the barbarian with tools he could have never dreamed of on his own. The social scientist has taught him the most effective use of that tool.
Well done, Oppenheimer.
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Chilbudios
Arch Duke 
Joined: 11-May-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1900 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 10:09 |
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I'll widen Edgewaters' point, that is that relativity doesn't come much into play in much of the technology surrounding us. Much of the engineering is designed as relativity wouldn't work (because relativistic effects are insignificant at low speeds).
As for physics, there's also the quantum physics, a revolutionary 20th century physics. Being hardly edible probably its heroes are less celebrated by public opinion. Edited by Chilbudios - 18-Jul-2006 at 10:11 |
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Roadkill
Samurai
Joined: 13-May-2006 Location: Norway Online Status: Offline Posts: 106 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 10:30 |
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Edgewaters, I was referring more to computers, TV, and the like. I was generalizing a bit but I forgive myself
. General relativity opened up for quantum mechanics as proposed by Niels Bohr.Edited by Roadkill - 18-Jul-2006 at 10:30 |
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955) |
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Chilbudios
Arch Duke
Joined: 11-May-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1900 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 11:03 |
General relativity is the theory of relativity of gravity which basically correlates the mass-energy with the geometry of the spacetime. What's your point about it and quantum mechanics? Edited by Chilbudios - 18-Jul-2006 at 11:05 |
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edgewaters
Sultan
Snake in the Grass-Banned Joined: 13-Mar-2006 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 2394 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 11:06 |
None of those require relativity. The basic component of the television, for instance - the cathode ray tube - was invented in 1897 by Karl Braun, and a working television was demonstrated as early as 1910 by Boris Rosing and Vladimir Zworykin, all predating relativity theory. Later inventions like the kinescope and iconoscope didn't depend on relativity, either. Nor does any stage of the evolution of the standard modern computer (although there is work being done on quantum computers, which obviously have some debt to relativity). Relativity has resulted in very few practical applications. GPS needs it, as do atomic clocks and super-precise timekeeping. Nuclear technology relies on it. Outside of that - there isn't much. Certainly not computers and television. |
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Imperator Invictus
Caliph
Retired AE Administrator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3151 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 12:22 |
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Einstein's contributions are not only relatively. His contributions to the photoelectric effect are one of the most fundamental to quantum physics. He also did work on Brownian motion, which is fundamental to materials engineering.
As for relativity, the work has not had a lot of practical typical applications. That's true. |
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Pieinsky
Shogun
Joined: 21-Apr-2006 Location: Ireland Online Status: Offline Posts: 207 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 12:23 |
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I'd like to know if you would like this world if suddenly it became devoid of sociologists, anthropologists, psycologists, actors, militery stratigists and political leaders, Empathy my friends is of great importance to a speices, our speices would not have existed up to this point if it wasnt for our great psycoanalytical ability as well as the excedingly brilliant psycoanalytical ability of small subset in our speices popules from its dawn to now.
Personally I am quite disgusted by some of you at the moment. It is transparent to me that some of you have been absorbed into the convention of the perception of what the most usefull intelligince is. If you had been born during the the renaisance period in Italy you probably would have thought that the natural sciences were of little importance in comparison to art.
I find it difficult to believe how little you understand societies have be formated by its power elite understanding of human behaviour . Do you think Hitler would have been able to gather so much power which eventually led to the rise of the nazi party and the extermination of many jews if it were not for his understanding that he could unite his followers under him by creating for them a common enemy . He also realised that jews could be used as a meduim of blame for many germans, thereby directing many failures of germany elsewhere so to amplify the idea that the true germans were a superior race. An idea he knew that would make them love him becasue he gave them a sense of great power and purpose.
Two feelings humans yearn for. He gave them identity, he made them feel special.
Do you think technollogy is the main thing that is being used to instigate certain muslims who have fragile wills to fight for al queda. Do you think great war heroes purely fought each other with technollogy, was it that their understanding of their enemies disposition is of no importance. Is social hierachy irrelavent. Why are you so blind to something that is situated all around you. Technollogy shapes society, yes. It is a sculpter and artist of it. Yes. It openes the doors to many possibilities, but there is a second sculpter, one who is equally important.
The thing about technollogy is it's benifits to us are more colourfull and conspicios becasue we handle it all the time without needing to understand it in microscopc detail but that doesnt mean it has a greater impact on society then human social functions. To see how the undersatnding of human behaviour benifits us is more difficult, becasue you need to undersatnd a lot of human social functions. While you dont need to understand the make up of technologies in detail to see how it benifits us.
Do you think research into cloning would be allowed if we lived in very conservative society. And what do you think makes a society willing to put reseach into certain technologies. What do you think makes a society conservative or liberal. Conservative, liberal, societies have existed since the beginnig of the human speices. I do believe technollogy is of great importance but that the understanding of human behaviour is as important if not more. I do hope I have enlightened you here as it grieves me to see how some people have so little understanding of what certain great minds have done or our speices. Morale and imorale. Edited by Pieinsky - 18-Jul-2006 at 12:34 |
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Decebal
Arch Duke
Digital Prometheus Joined: 20-May-2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 1791 |
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Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 12:56 |
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Pieinski, I agree with you. Social sciences and arts do not get their fair share of recognition in the modern world. This is largely due to Enlightenment attitudes which placed science and pure reason on a pedestal. Our world has been shaped just as much by the arts and by social sciences as by the pure sciences. Who could deny the impact of a Karl Marx, of John Keynes, of Richard Wagner (whose influence extended far beyond music, btw), of Hegel, Bertrand Russell, Leonardo Da Vinci or Shakespeare?
And what about religion and mysticism. In the history of Western Civilization for example, people such as St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas are far more important (so far at least), than the vast majority of physicists. Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad and Confucius are titans that built our world, in a way that Einstein hasn't yet come close to. Perhaps in the far future, when his theories will actually result in technologies that will significantly impact our everyday lives, the point could be made in his favor. But not now.
Arts and social sciences end up shaping our very human nature, whether we are aware of it or not. Do people really believe that the values they hold, the symbols that they associate with the world, their very perception of the world are simply intrinsically part of any human? They are in fact the result of many centuries of social, ideological, religious and artistic development. The values that your mother instills in you when you are still in diapers are the descendants of thought-processes that social thinkers first developed a long time ago.
As for Einstein in particular, I think that he is somewhat overrated. Surely a great man, and of the greatest scientists. Was he the greatest scientist? Perhaps, but that is a fairly subjective call. It is difficult to compare him with someone like Newton for example, because many of us don't understand Newton's age, his climate of opinion. The choice of Einstein as the greatest man of the 20th century was in my opinion simply politically correct. It is much easier to point to him than to choose an ideologically charged alternative such as the much maligned Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, or even the more palatable Roosevelt, Gandhi or Churchill, who all had a greater impact on history.
The thing with science is that it is almost universally recognized as having positive results (even when the results are catastrophic: see the atom bomb). Social sciences and arts are subjective. One man's idol is another man's demon, and a consensus on a person's true impact is virtually impossible to achieve.
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What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi 
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