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Burka vs Bikini ???

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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Burka vs Bikini ???
    Posted: 16-Jul-2006 at 11:53
I was just looking for the reason behind the low level of relations between a husband and wive in American, where most of the marriages break soon after the bond.
And wanted to compare it with the reason of why marriages long for ever in Islamic countries and most of other Asain countries (Japan, India, China etc).
 
While searching for some source I came up with an article regarding it, so thaught why not to share it with you fellows and see what are your point of views regading the question.
 
********* THE ARTICLE *********
 

The Debauchery of American Womanhood

By: Henry Makow, Ph.D.

On my wall, I have a picture of a Muslim woman shrouded in a burka.
Beside it is a picture of an American beauty contestant, wearing nothing but a bikini.
One woman is totally hidden from the public; the other is totally exposed. These two extremes say a great deal about the clash of so-called "civilizations."
The role of woman is at the heart of any culture. Apart from stealing Arab oil, the impending war in the
Middle East is about stripping Arabs of their religion and culture, exchanging the burka for a bikini.

I am not an expert on the condition of Muslim women and I love feminine beauty too much to advocate the burka here. But I am defending some of the values that the burka represents for me.
For me, the burka represents a woman's consecration to her husband and family. Only they see her.

It affirms the privacy, exclusivity and importance of the domestic sphere.
The Muslim woman's focus is her home, the "nest" where her children are born and reared. She is the "home" maker, the taproot that sustains the spiritual life of the family, nurturing and training her children, providing refuge and support to her husband.

In contrast, the bikinied American beauty queen struts practically naked in front of millions on TV. A feminist, she belongs to herself. In practice, paradoxically, she is public property. She belongs to no one and everyone. She shops her body to the highest bidder. She is auctioning herself all of the time.

In
America, the cultural measure of a woman's value is her sex appeal. (As this asset depreciates quickly, she is neurotically obsessed with appearance and plagued by weight problems.)

As an adolescent, her role model is Britney Spears, a singer whose act approximates a strip tease. From Britney, she learns that she will be loved only if she gives sex. Thus, she learns to "hook up" rather than to demand
patient courtship and true love. As a result, dozens of males know her before her husband does. She loses her innocence, which is a part of her charm. She becomes hardened and calculating. Unable to love, she is unfit to
receive her husband's seed.

The feminine personality is founded on the emotional relationship between mother and baby. It is based on nurturing and self-sacrifice. Masculine nature is founded on the relationship between hunter and prey. It is based
on aggression and reason.

Feminism teaches woman that feminine nature has resulted in "oppression" and that she should convert to male behavior instead. The result: a confused and aggressive woman with a large chip on her shoulder, unfit to become a wife or mother.

This, of course, is the goal of the social engineers at the NWO: undermine sexual identity and destroy the family, create social and personal dysfunction, and reduce population. In the "brave new world," women are not
supposed to be "nest" makers, or progenitors of the race. They are meant to be neutered autonomous creatures that indulge in sex for physical pleasure, not for love or procreation.

At his press conference on Sunday, Donald Rumsfeld said that Iranian women and youth were restive under the rule of the Mullahs. He implied that the US would soon liberate them. To Britney Spears? To low-rise "see-my-thong" pants? To the mutual masturbation that passes for sexuality in America?

Parenthood is the pinnacle of human development. It is the stage when we finally graduate from self-indulgence and become God's surrogates: creating and nurturing new life. The New World Order does not want us to reach this level of maturity. Pornography is the substitute for marriage. We are to remain stunted: single, sex-starved and self-obsessed.

We are not meant to have a permanent "private" life. We are to remain lonely and isolated, dependent on consumer products for our identity, in a state of perpetual courtship.

This is especially destructive for woman. Her sexual attraction is a function of her fertility. As fertility declines, so does her sex appeal. If a woman devotes her prime years to becoming "independent," she is not likely to find a permanent mate.

Her long-term personal fulfillment and happiness lies in making marriage and family her first priority.

Feminism is another cruel New World Order hoax that has debauched American women and despoiled Western civilization. It has ruined millions of lives and represents a lethal threat to Islam.

I am not advocating the burka but rather some of the values that it represents, specifically a woman's consecration to her future husband and family, and the modesty and dignity this entails.



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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2006 at 12:38
gharanai-  I assume you got the information about most American marriages breaking up soon after the wedding from the same type of "reliable and scientific" Tongue  website as Makow's.
 
Henry Makow Phd.-  Owner of website Save the Males
                                 Author of such scholarly tomes as-
Does a Satanic Cult Rule the World?  The Devils Work, Feminism and the Elite Depopulation Agenda.
Illuminati Defector Details Pervasive Conspiracy
The Dawn of The Feminine Police State
Illuminati Sex Slaves Paint Horrifying Pictures   [Bet they doLOL]
The "Jewish" Conspiracy is British Imperialism   and last but not least
Is the New World Order "Jewish"
 
In a moment of extreme weakness I clicked on the little button that says moreTongueConfused  I should not have. but then again I would have missed out on-
               The Zionist Protection Racket
             The Jewish Banker Conspiracy
               The Hoax of Female Empowerment, and one I know will be a real hit with Mila, Dawn and Morty- Frigid Woman are Usually Feminists
 
 
 
Nice Source Gharanai LOL  This guy is a gold plated Whack JobWacko
 
 


Edited by red clay - 16-Jul-2006 at 12:42
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2006 at 13:12
i agree with Red Clay, in my opinion this article is fully nonsense and misogynous, specially this part: "As an adolescent, her role model is Britney Spears, a singer whose act approximates a strip tease. From Britney, she learns that she will be loved only if she gives sex. Thus, she learns to "hook up" rather than to demand
patient courtship and true love. As a result, dozens of males know her before her husband does. She loses her innocence, which is a part of her charm. She becomes hardened and calculating. Unable to love, she is unfit to receive her husband's seed."
Something about innocence, in western countries is this totally obsolete, so inocence is no more important for anyone. If you love a woman it should be regardless for you whether is she inocent or not, why should a piece of skin be so important for a man's life?
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2006 at 13:12
I dont know who wrote that article, but man, does he have a twisted view on the world. Please let him stay far from me or I will bash in his condescending brain.
 
And where does the nonsense come from that a woman becomes unable to love once she has been with other men?? And why do these people always believe no woman is able to to have morals without a man telling them?
 
Eugh, people like this make me sick.


Edited by Aelfgifu - 16-Jul-2006 at 13:17

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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2006 at 14:03
Oh I see, I guess most of you found Authors word quite a rough, but anyway I still don't have the answer to my question that If the writer is wrong then what really is the reason behind that most of the marriages don't last for long???
I would really like to know about it I guess maybe you guys are right the author went a bit harsh but still he had a point, didn't he?


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  Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2006 at 14:22
I'll take a women that can make her own choices anyday. If that means a higher divorce rate then so be it. Better then living in a false world with an unhappy wife. And yes I am divorced.

Interesting bikini analogy. I guess he's never been to other countries where some dont even wear a top(not saying thats bad). And look at some of those other books WOW.
"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"
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  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2006 at 14:47
I think the social pressure too marry as soon as a couple is together for a time is patially to blame. In the US people marry young and after just a few years into the relation, because this is 'expected'. If people were more free in their decision, they would have time to find out if they really liked each other before they get married. So, less marriages = Less divorce. Simple. Tongue
 
And that man pisses me off even more after reading it twice. He really needs to stay far away from me. I am not going to be anybody's breeding machine, get that? Sexist pig he is.


Edited by Aelfgifu - 16-Jul-2006 at 14:50

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2006 at 15:12
Originally posted by Gharanai

Oh I see, I guess most of you found Authors word quite a rough, but anyway I still don't have the answer to my question that If the writer is wrong then what really is the reason behind that most of the marriages don't last for long???
I would really like to know about it I guess maybe you guys are right the author went a bit harsh but still he had a point, didn't he?
 
 
First, you have to give us some credible data for divorce rate and ratios.  The divorce rate in the US is high but not as bad as it once was and not bad enough to say most marriages don't last.
 
Yes, he has a point, but one that even combing his hair right won't hide.LOL  Gharanai- This man is a self righteous, pompous jackass.  He is offensive to any educated and intelligent person. 
 
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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2006 at 15:46
There are too many reasons why in muslims and some traditional countries marriage longs forever. I will talk about a few of them.
First of all the family is very important, family members would do everything to save the construction of their families. And so the people have to face the fact what would the relatives, friends and neighbours say if we divorce. The most reason for the families don't to divorce are the children, for the sake of the children would a mother stay with an unbeloved man even if he beats or cheats her. Another reasons for a woman to not divorce are
1. She is financially dependent of her husband
2. in most muslim's countries she would lose the children. Other than in the west countries where the woman will get the child custody after divorcing and the ex-husband has to pay for the child, in muslims countries the man will get the custody.
western women attache importance of sexual equality, they don't want to stay at home washing and coocking and play the maid at home for the husband. In many muslim's and traditional countries the women even have no clue about their rights and women rights are totally or partly unknown. Believe me, if muslim women believe that they have rights like western women, they will at 90 % divorce their husbands.
 
western women also want to have a satisfied sex life like men. They want someone who understand their sexuality and could satisfy them, and not someone who turns back and sleeps if he is ready after 10 minutes. They would part themselves from such men. The women sexuality is a complex thing and if you really love your wife you should learn it, to reach this knowledge you should to talk about it many times with your wife in detail. Now look in muslim's and traditional countries where the sexuality is tabu theme to only mention it, let alone to talk in detail about it. And specially muslim men know nothing about the sexuality of a woman and uses the classical way of sexuality( you know what i mean, only in and out and after 5 minutes he is ready) and lets the woman unpleasured back. The poor women of such countries don't know that they have right to be sexually satisfied like the men.
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  Quote morticia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 11:48
I agree with Maziar when he says that if Muslim women had the same rights as Western women, the divorce rate would go sky high!! Women that are totally dependent (economically and socially) upon their husbands, have no choice but to stay in the marriage (wanted or unwanted), not only to keep the "honor" in the family, but because she would not be able to support herself and her children. Western women went through that as well. Even in the late 1800s and early 1900s, most western women were uneducated, unemployable, and considered vulnerable, weak and also second class citizens. After many years of fighting for the women's rights' movement, women were finally taken seriously and it changed women's roles in society by giving them the ability to fend for herself and her children... to be able to obtain an equal education to that of men, to give them a way out of a relationship that was mistreating her, using her, abusing her, etcetera. She could finally voice an opinion and take control of her life, and did not have to be complacent, but rather she could go for the limit and beyond....just as men can!

I feel that life goes much easier when both parties help each other financially and emotionally. I can't imagine the pressure that men feel in having to totally support an entire family. That cannot be an easy task to accomplish on his own. Working women can ease that pressure for men, so I don't understand why some men still feel that a "woman's place is in the home". Can someone tell me why some men still want women on the "back burners"?   
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  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 01:13
Originally posted by Maziar

There are too many reasons why in muslims and some traditional countries marriage longs forever. I will talk about a few of them.
First of all the family is very important, family members would do everything to save the construction of their families. And so the people have to face the fact what would the relatives, friends and neighbours say if we divorce. The most reason for the families don't to divorce are the children, for the sake of the children would a mother stay with an unbeloved man even if he beats or cheats her. Another reasons for a woman to not divorce are
1. She is financially dependent of her husband
2. in most muslim's countries she would lose the children. Other than in the west countries where the woman will get the child custody after divorcing and the ex-husband has to pay for the child, in muslims countries the man will get the custody.
western women attache importance of sexual equality, they don't want to stay at home washing and coocking and play the maid at home for the husband. In many muslim's and traditional countries the women even have no clue about their rights and women rights are totally or partly unknown. Believe me, if muslim women believe that they have rights like western women, they will at 90 % divorce their husbands.
 
western women also want to have a satisfied sex life like men. They want someone who understand their sexuality and could satisfy them, and not someone who turns back and sleeps if he is ready after 10 minutes. They would part themselves from such men. The women sexuality is a complex thing and if you really love your wife you should learn it, to reach this knowledge you should to talk about it many times with your wife in detail. Now look in muslim's and traditional countries where the sexuality is tabu theme to only mention it, let alone to talk in detail about it. And specially muslim men know nothing about the sexuality of a woman and uses the classical way of sexuality( you know what i mean, only in and out and after 5 minutes he is ready) and lets the woman unpleasured back. The poor women of such countries don't know that they have right to be sexually satisfied like the men.
 
Hi Maziar,
 
you're generalizing a bit here, and are wrong on one or two points.
 
And specially muslim men know nothing about the sexuality of a woman and uses the classical way of sexuality( you know what i mean, only in and out and after 5 minutes he is ready) and lets the woman unpleasured back. The poor women of such countries don't know that they have right to be sexually satisfied like the men.
 
Why wouldnt they know? It's part of the Hadith that men pleasure women..Here's quotes from two of them.
 
"Three things are counted inadequacies in a man. Firstly, meeting someone he would like to get to know, and taking leave of him before learning his name and his family. Secondly, rebuffing the generosity that another shows to him. And thirdly, going to his wife and having intercourse with her before talking to her and gaining her intimacy, satisfying his need from her before she has satisfied her need from him."
 
"The Prophet said: In the sexual act of each of you there is a sadaqa (charity). -Sahih.
 
Sounds like you're using taken the "anything Muslim must be chauvinistic approach", which I'd probably disagree with though some people for sure are like this, Muslim and non Muslim.
 
It, therefore, being my Muslim duty to bring pleasure to womanhood Wink 
 
2. in most muslim's countries she would lose the children. Other than in the west countries where the woman will get the child custody after divorcing and the ex-husband has to pay for the child, in muslims countries the man will get the custody.
 
I can only say of Pakistan. But there, the Guardian and Wards Act of 1890 is used..Basically, if the minor is very young or is a female, the courts are directed to give preference to the mother, according to this act. In fact, the statistics show that in Pakistan it is usually the mother that gets custody of the children (if you need references I'll get you some). There's lots of other factors involved of course.


Edited by TeldeInduz - 18-Jul-2006 at 01:32
Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................
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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 09:24
Hello Teldeinduz, yes i am awar of both hadithes. But fact is the most men give no damn about female orgasm, or they think why should the woman have it , or they never thought about female pleasure befor. And if the men really attache importance of their wives orgasm, they have no clue HOW to do that. Be honest, how many muslim's men know about how to stimulate the clitoris? or how many ever heared of female G-spot or male Jen Mo-spot ?
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  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 11:11
Originally posted by Maziar

Hello Teldeinduz, yes i am awar of both hadithes. But fact is the most men give no damn about female orgasm, or they think why should the woman have it , or they never thought about female pleasure befor. And if the men really attache importance of their wives orgasm, they have no clue HOW to do that. Be honest, how many muslim's men know about how to stimulate the clitoris? or how many ever heared of female G-spot or male Jen Mo-spot ?
 
Smile I'm not sure which survey you got your research figures from, but I'm sure some men know, some men dont, some men are more "giving" some men arent, that cuts right across all the religions and non religions of the world.
Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................
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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 11:15
Well we have some good reasons by both Maziar and Morticia which are some how considerable.
Dear Maziar I am sure that got the point that brother TeldeInduz very welly expressed, I mean it is not Islam which makes the men to not consider about the opposit sex's pleasure but it's the Tradition of different people of different countries.
I am very much satisfied with your words saying that in those countries men don't care about women's pleasure, it is a fact that could not be changed and most of them just uses women for their own pleasure but you can't tie it to Islam, where Prophet (PBUH) himself declares his words regading it (as mentioned by TeldeInduz). The only problem behind it is that it is the Tradition which creates men more superior and women inferior in most aspects of the life (not only sexual life).
 
Secondly the reason of women being dependent (Socially and Financially) is the best reason that could lie behinde the difference of divorce rate between two communities (East and West) of the world...
 


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  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 11:30
Just to clarify, I dont think tradition comes much into it either. It's just the character of people - most types exist in all countries.
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  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 11:37
Gharanai.....
Secondly the reason of women being dependent (Socially and Financially) is the best reason that could lie behinde the difference of divorce rate between two communities (East and West) of the world...
 
Yes, and before 1960-70's, the West was also male-dominated to some extend. Then we had the feminist "revolution" and things changed.
 
My first question to you Gharanai is, would you think it possible for a similar revolution to take place in the east - and if yes, when? - if no, why not?

Another question to you - could you accept a spouse totally equal to you - and why / why not?
 


Edited by Northman - 18-Jul-2006 at 11:39
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  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 13:11
Dear Northman,
First of all thanks for the attestation and extra info and afterwards:
 
Answer to Q1:- Well as far as I am concerned I guess you shall not use the word east because there are many eastern countries who have already seen such revolution (like Japan, China, Russia, Partial India, Pakistan where it is taking place or you can say is in process of and many other countries).
Aftherward while I can't take more specific about other countries as I don't know much about their culture, customs, traditions and characteristics, but for sure I can tell you about Afghanistan (or you can say some of other Muslim countries as well).
As far as  I see it, it looks impossible as the traditions, culture and social norms is more powerful in Afghanistan than the words of independence and equal rights to women as well as the religion (Islam was the first religion to introduce equal rights for women and man but it is the tradition and culture which has dominated over religion).
 
My most favorite King of Afghanistan, Amir Amanullah Khan Ghazi did try to accomplish this target by introducing equal rights to women and telling that women have the rights to work for a living as well as they have the right to choose what is good for them. He also overturned centuries-old traditions such a strict dress codes for women.
But all of his actions was storm by the Khost rebellion in 1924 under the command of Nader Shah (father of Zahir Shah) saying that "The Amir wants to implement a european constitution and way of life in an Islamic country!" These words erupted a large number of religious people (who infact even didn't know what Islam tells about the right of women), which resulted in an end to the Golden era of Afghan History (where if that had been implemented today Afghanistan would had been like Turkey a developing country with equal rights to both genders). (for more detail regarding Amir's actions check this link)
 
Answer to Q#2:- Well to be honest, I really do as I guess that a child is mostly raised by a mother and if the mother is well educated and know what the world will raise a wise child.
Beside this the other benefit could be that we could have some sort of same mentality about our surroundings and environment and we could have a clear preception of life.
Plus all of this my own mother is an educated woman and has same rights as my father in our family.
I see most of my country men uneducated, un-ethical and rude and then I ask myself that what if my mom wasn't an educated woman, wouldn't I also be among those fellows? Then I see the virtue and rule of a woman in a man's life.
So I would surely go for an equal spouse.


Edited by Gharanai - 18-Jul-2006 at 13:22


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  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 19:12
Gharanai...
 
I'm sorry I didnt specify country or region, but I simply used the same terms (east-west) as you did. (see your bold words in my post)
 
Thank you my friend, for the comprehensive and honest answers to my questions. 
Your answer helped me to get a better perspective on the issues. Smile
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 04:32
Originally posted by morticia

I agree with Maziar when he says that if Muslim women had the same rights as Western women, the divorce rate would go sky high!! Women that are totally dependent (economically and socially) upon their husbands, have no choice but to stay in the marriage (wanted or unwanted), not only to keep the "honor" in the family, but because she would not be able to support herself and her children. Western women went through that as well. Even in the late 1800s and early 1900s, most western women were uneducated, unemployable, and considered vulnerable, weak and also second class citizens. After many years of fighting for the women's rights' movement, women were finally taken seriously and it changed women's roles in society by giving them the ability to fend for herself and her children... to be able to obtain an equal education to that of men, to give them a way out of a relationship that was mistreating her, using her, abusing her, etcetera. She could finally voice an opinion and take control of her life, and did not have to be complacent, but rather she could go for the limit and beyond....just as men can!

I feel that life goes much easier when both parties help each other financially and emotionally. I can't imagine the pressure that men feel in having to totally support an entire family. That cannot be an easy task to accomplish on his own. Working women can ease that pressure for men, so I don't understand why some men still feel that a "woman's place is in the home". Can someone tell me why some men still want women on the "back burners"?   
Mortica,
    I think you are mistaken here on two counts. You presume that women in the "East: are completely dependent on their husbands economically. It may be true for some families, but not true for the vast majority. Most families here are based on the "Joint family" system, rather than a nuclear family. Their is thus a great deal of interdependence and no one can expect to continue to enjoy the same standard of living if they sever themselves from the family even if they work.
 
Secondly, I think you are mistaken in saying that before the 1960's/70's women did not work. For poor women, not working was not an option, if they did not the family would starve. This is as much true today as it was 150 years ago. I think people take Victorian values and ethics and superimpose them on all of the past, regardless of era, region or culture.
 
In the Victorian upper and to a lesser extent middle class home niether the women nor the men needed to work at all. Indeed work was almost completely optional, they would spend their days hunting, in some gentlemans club or the other, or visiting some colony.
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  Quote Master_Blaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 16:25
I love how the feminists think that if a girl isn't having premarital sex or isn't promisicuous - then she must be oppressed! ROFL
 
No wonder Western men are such pussies. Their women have the cocks.
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