Byzantine Metalworking

In playing Age of Empires II: Conquerors, it has always amused me the extent to which the Byzantines can upgrade in armor. One can upgrade them all the way up to the second-to-last option, Plate Armor. Granted the game does not allow the Byzantines access to the final Blast Furnace option but correct me if I'm wrong: wasn't plate armor produced on a large scale using the blast furnace? There seems to be no evidence to support that the Byzantines were able to make plate armor in the late period (14th-15th centuries).

In reality, the Byzantines had the technology and ability to make sophisticated chain and scale armor, specifically scale. However, although it is close, the heavy Byzantine klibanion was not the same as scale armor in Western Europe. It is different (and unique) in a couple ways: the klibanion did not have a leather backing (it was laced together by thongs, not nailed by rivets), and the individual pieces (lamellae) overlapped upwards instead of downwards.

If one examines the military manuals and strategika of the early and middle periods, as well as icons and manuscript illuminations, one can get a good idea of what Byzantine armor looked like. Some archaeological evidence clues us in on the metallurgy of the armor, which was mainly iron. Metallurgy texts that they used were ones from their ancient Greek predecessors.

Of course, the imperial government tightly controlled precious metals and their mining like other commodities/resources, but as time wore on, mining operations devolved into the hands of private owners. As far as the tradition of mining and armor-making, the Byzantines followed the methods of their Roman predecessors very conservatively.

In the late period, the imperial government did not have the funds, or possibly even the interest, in harnessing the new technology that Western Europe was using, like the blast furnace. The ones who could afford plate armor, such as the nobility, probably imported it from the northern Balkans or from the Italian Republics.

As for work with precious metals, the Byzantines still continued to put out masterful pieces, especially for ecclesiastical use. There is evidence of Byzantine gold and silver smiths taking high-paying positions in Western Europe after the fall of Constantinople in 1453.

 

Edited by Byzantine Emperor - 13-Jul-2006 at 00:51

Originally posted by rider I am quite sure that there were large furnaces in larger cities such as Nicaea, Thessalonike, Chersonesus, etc...

I have also got introdused to Byzantine History from Age of Empires  but i still believe that AoE was a bad game in the aspect of Historical accuransy (hey even the muslins had knights and Cavaliers with plate armor, when the muslims never reach the plate armor ).

Originally posted by rider I told you I was wrong.

Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor So, the normal process was that the blast furnace and finery forge were used in tandem to produce plate mail?� In other words, the blast furnace was not used by itseld to produce the armor, because the product was too brittle.

You could do it that way, or with a bloomery. In other words, you didn't need a blast furnace ... it's just that who had the blast furnace had much more metal, more metal means more smiths, more smiths means more of a smithing industry and consequently a more developed industry, etc etc.

Also you need very good metal for plate armour. Sweden had the only raw ore that was pure enough to produce blister steel. There were ways one could achieve a carbonized alloy using iron from other sources, during the forging process, but it would only be a skin of steel.

The Romans probably used some kind of furnace; you are right. What I meant in reference to the late Byzantine period was if the Byzantines utilized the new technology of the late medieval blast furnace that had been invented in and spread from Scandinavia during the 14th century.

The Romans had bloomeries for iron, and they could cast bronze.

By the time of the Punic Wars they had something else: a tiny ally, the Norici, a Celtic kingdom in present-day Austria. The Norici could make Noric "steel". Like the Swedes, they had deposits of a special ore, consisting of iron and manganese. Using shaft furnaces (not quite a blast furnace, but very similar) they produced a carbon-controlled iron/manganese alloy, effectively a manganese steel (though nowhere near as good as modern carbon-manganese steel, which is one of the strongest, hardest steels produced). Noric steel was far superior to anything else in Europe at the time; Brennus' men had it when they sacked Rome, but it was not long before Rome managed to extend its political sway over this center.

Bit more on ancient steel (and a little on Norici techniques) here:

http://www.psigate.ac.uk/newsite/reference/plambeck/chem2/p02263.htm

In addition to Noricum (and Sweden in later times) there was another region blessed with an ore uniquely suited to ancient metallurgical techniques, in Lakonia, Sparta. I do not know if they were able to produce the equivalent of Noric steel, but it is possible.
    

Edited by edgewaters - 15-Jul-2006 at 05:53

Originally posted by BlindOne I am talking about native troops. Byzantines had lost their native army in the Katakouzian civil war in the 14 century. After the end of that civil war the native soldiers almost extinguised from the army. Also by that time the Byzantine's couldn't affort to hire much mercenaries due to limited funacials.

Edited by Byzantine Emperor - 06-Aug-2006 at 20:11

If you want to know something, then usually it is asked nicely. Also, have you read all the posts? In the beginning of this topic we did indeed discuss something about armour if I am not mistaken.

Originally posted by gerghoi zukuf armr damn i want to know more about armor

Edited by Byzantine Emperor - 10-Aug-2006 at 15:30

For a continuation of the above discussion on the creation of a native army in the late Byzantine period, see my Late Byzantine Military thread, page 6.

Let's return to the economic and technological aspect of Byzantine metalworking in the late period...

Originally posted by rider 1) I think creating weapons is both: costly in money and time.