Arvanitic, a dying language

Originally posted by dorian I'll give you an example... One of my fellow-students has an Arvanite grand-father from whom he learned some arvanitic words, his grand-mother is from Chios and the other two grand-parents of him are Cretans. So, how could you characterize him who speaks some arvanitic? An Arvanite by origin? An Arvanite by culture? Name me one reason for him to preserve the arvanitic culture while he doesn't belong to an arvanitic family. Can you understand why the arvanitic language comes to extinct?

Originally posted by dorian As I told you above the grand-parent of this person is Arvanite who speaks arvanitic and greek (Arvanites are bilingual). Was he able to talk arvanitic with his wife (from Chios) in home? So how could his children learn arvanitic? And how his grandson could've learned Arvanitic? The arvanitic language cannot be preserved ever by one person in a greek speaking family through the centuries, since there are not pure arvanitic societies now.

Basically I do not believe the Arvanite dialekt has died yet...However, calling it Pelasgian is way too much science fiction. It is more close to Albanian. Pelasgians were the natives of the southern balcan penisula waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in time. Every single ancient language in the Balcans has loan words from the Pelasgic language. The Hellenic, the Illyrian, the Etruscan, the Lydian, the Phoenician etc. 

Herodotus wrote f.ex "It is evident to me that the Hellenes never changed their speech. It was a branch of Pelasgian that separated from the main body" (George Rawlingsons translation).

The dialect of Pontus has a lot of words f.ex included in pelasgian inscription found. That doesn't mean though it is Pelasgian after so many thousands years, even though the dialect is the most primitive of the rest dialects.

Many words are also connected to the Aramaic...To be exact they are exact copies. How can then so many words be common in so many languages? Because they are loan words.

Lately I've read a lot about people trying to give an explanation in pelasgian inscriptions connecting them to their language. Even turks tryed to call the turkish language Pelasgian.

Anyway, Arvanitika as we call it, is still preserved in some areas. What I've noticed though, which is sad and sounds strange into my ears is that some people comming from Arvanite villages in Greece refuse to declare themselves as Arvanites even though they can speak arvanitine. They say the language was just a leftover from the Ottoman times. Maybe that's why the text Arber posted says "Why didn't they learn you more? Cause they thought the language was nothing worth".


Edited by Flipper - 06-Jul-2006 at 18:44

As for the preservation of the language Arber, I think the Roms are a great example of keeping their language global without having it written.

Originally posted by Flipper As for the preservation of the language Arber, I think the Roms are a great example of keeping their language global without having it written.

Originally posted by Arb�r Z Originally posted by Flipper As for the preservation of the language Arber, I think the Roms are a great example of keeping their language global without having it written.   Yes, but thats a different thing. The roms (unfortunately) are marginalised in our societies, and they are not considered greek there, nor albanian here. It is a different thing with the arvanites, they are considered (and actually are) a integrated part of the hellenic nation (consiously).

No it is not different...Basically you see as Roms people that live in tens in a rez which is a prejudice amonst most of us. I can't talk about the Roms in Albania but in Greece most Roms do live in houses. However people refer to those who lives in tents as Roms.

Roms are a race of its own but in some societies they adapt the ethnic consciousnes of the locals. Roms in Greece complain sometimes cause they are not threated equaly when they try to get a job done (job: f.ex legal issues etc). Their main argument is "We are Greeks too" which means they do not to be treated as outsiders or bugs of the community. Exactly the same situation exists in Sweden and Finland. You can't distinguish a swedish rom from a swede that easy. In Finland you do, however both swedish and finnish roms reffer to themselves as Swedish/Suomalainen Roms.

Now do you have some information about the different branches of the Pelasgians? Did their language change depending on the people they came in contact with? I'm interested on this matter. Some fanatic ortodox christian groups I've located are trying to deny their existance. They've translated Herodotus and Homer incorrectly in order to prove that the Pelasgians were a myth.

According to findings during the 60s and 70s all over Greece, archeologists concluded that the "birthplace" of the Pelasgians was in the Limnos Island. Their name means "Sea people". They did have a primitive alphabet which was a mix of Eboic, Cadmian and the Cretan Linnear B. The letters are fewer compared to the alphabets mentioned which makes their inscription readable in too many different ways.

As for Italy and the Arvanites. Do they live in Calabria?

Hey, Arber, can you tell me if the toponym 'Koutsomodi' ('Koutsoumad', with a certain accent?) is arvanitic?

Well, we won't be americans in a century, we will probably be 'europeans', speaking english next to our mother languages (who will still be used, you can't force like 80 million germans to change their language).

It is the place where grapes are 'sqeezed'  to create this liquid (moustos) which will later become wine. Linoi is plural of linos. The area had always traditionally produced grapes, wine and dried grapes (no idea how they are called in english). Corinthian dried grapes are famous.

Originally posted by Arb�r Z Anyway, I still think something should be done to prevent this languages from disappearing. In albania we provide instruction in greek language until high school, and you can study hellenic culture in Tirana University -philologic sciences faculty. So I dont believe greek is gonna be lost in albania (fortunately)

Very interesting...I didn't know. On the other side you can see that Greeks that moved from Albania to Greece after the form of the state changed, were speaking fluetly (maybe not all ofcourse) which must have something to do with education as well not just talking the language at home.