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  Quote RajputGirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Aryan Indians
    Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 21:29
TeldeInduz mentioned something about the Kurmi Kshatriyas in Punjab? 

If I'm not mistaken, I think the Kurmis and Yadavs were originally Sudras, and the ones I know are from UP and Bihar...not Punjab.   
 
Now, they're being accepted as Kshatriyas for some reason, like the Lodh Rajputs?  At least that's what I 've heard.  I don't know how this whole thing works. 
 
I wouldn't trust what wikipedia says about "Punjabi Patels" anyway.  Anybody can add in their two cents. 
 
 
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  Quote Aarya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 21:54
Hey everybody discussing Aishwarya Rai's eyes---------HER EYES ARE BROWN.
       WHY DO U WNAT TO FIND WHAT IS NON EXISTANT IN HER.

   SHE HAS BROWN EYES. MATTER CLOSED.
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  Quote Aarya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 22:12
                 IN some places of India sudras and other than Kshatiryas accquired power. When they ruled over a principality or say a small town or group of viallges, they did elevate themselves to the caste of Rajputs or Kshatriyas.
                The original yadavas(yadu's) were kshatriyas. But due to Sri Krishna's life with nanda and yashoda(whose principal occupation was herdsmen), every herdsman identifies himself with Krishna and so with yadavas.
                People down here who are called "Golla" in the local language(means who look after or whose occupation is looking after cows) started taking Yadavas as their last name and they identify themselves with the clan of Sri Krishna.
              I dont know how much fact remains ....I doubt it.
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  Quote Aarya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 22:15
             But some Yadavas ruled in Southern India for a very breif periodDevagiri  was the name for Daulatabad which was the region of Deccan during the mediaeval period.  Yadavas ruled Devagiri under the suzerainty of Chalukyas though they were the governors of Rashtrakuta rulers.

Bhilama-V Yadava (1185 - 1193 AD), a later prince of the Yadava family made a bid for the paramount power in the Deccan by revolting against Chalukyas.  Soon he led various expeditions against the Hoysalas, the Paramaras and started ruling the whole country north of the Krishna.  He then founded the city of Devagiri (abode of Gods!)  and henceforth, the dynasty founded by Bhilama Yadava - V (1185 - 1193 AD)  was known as Yadavas of Devagiri.  Bhilama-V concentrated in only strengthening his power than conquering or annexing territories of his neighbours Hoysalas and Silharas of Karad.

Jaitugi (1191 - 1200), the next successor combated against Pandya's of Nolambavadi.  Hoysalas were still supreme and Jaitugi had to acknowledge the suzerainty of Hoysalas.  The next ruler Singhana (1200 - 1247 AD) was much more powerful and adventurous compared to his predecessors and also had inherited a stable kingdom.  He had time to campaign against Hoysalas and Karad Silharas which brought him much success, the Karad Silharas were totally wiped out upon his campaign.

Krishna (1247 - 1261 AD) and Mahadeva (1261 - 1270 AD) were helpless rulers who had more trouble rendered by their neighbour who were more powerful.  They managed to contain the trouble than concentrating on expanding their territory or to look after the domestic affairs.  Mahadeva passed the throne to his son Ammana, but the latter was deposed by Krishna's son Ramachandra who captured the impregnable port of Devagiri easily.

Ramachandra Yadava (1270 - 1311) enjoyed a good reign in the beginning by defeating Hoysalas and captured the Dwarasamudra (also called Halebidu).  But the aggressive campaigns of the Delhi Sultanate shattered the dreams of inheriting the fruits of his victory and efforts when Ala-al-din Mohammad Khilji was sent by his master Firuz to lead the southern campaign.   In 1294 AD, the kingdom of Devagiri was invaded by the Sultanate and Ramachandra was taken unaware.  The latter paid a heavy ransom and managed to reign till 1310.

In 1311, Ramachandra was succeded by his son Shankaragana who discontinued sendning tribute to Delhi.  General Malik Kafur was sent to Devagiri and Shankaragana was slain.  Sometime later, Harapaladeva - the son-in-law of Ramachandra raised an insurrection and drove away the Mohammedans to rule for a short period.  The city transformed to Daulatabad when it was taken again under Sultanate control, and the Yadava dynasty saw its end in 1318 AD.
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  Quote Rajput Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 09:21
Originally posted by rolopolo

There are very few SIkh Rajputs. I think most of the Punjabi rajputs are in Pakistan. Feel free to correct me.
And in Pakistan rajputs and Jatts are very mixed unlike in the Indian punjab where they cling on to their tribal roots.
 
 
I don't think you understand the "clinging of tribal roots" issue, now I for one dont consider the muslim 'rajputs' as being rajput...its an oxymoron but just to correct your statement....
 
Originally posted by BBC

Pakistan clans 'abusing' British politics
By Navid Akhtar
Presenter, The Biraderi, BBC Radio 4

Shahid Malik of the Labour NEC
Shahid Malik: Labour 'unwittingly colluded'
A senior Labour Party figure has accused his party of not doing enough to break the hold of a Pakistani clan system on supporters and candidates drawn from within the community.

In a BBC Radio 4 documentary, Shahid Malik of the party's national executive echoed concerns from within the Pakistani community that women and younger potential political candidates are being blocked from going for office because of a hidden clan system.

Biraderi clans, meaning brotherhood, are the extended clan or tribal networks that influence the UK's nearly one million strong Pakistani community.

The networks are an extension of systems of allegiance in Pakistan itself.

For some members, the clan gives them their strongest sense of identity and personal codes of behaviour.

Labour and other parties got used to dealing with clan people and there seems to be an unwitting collusion there between the parties and first generation British Pakistanis
Shahid Malik
But like those who opposed historic class politics in the UK, many British Pakistanis believe clans have become a destructive and negative influence.

Critics believe the grip of the Biraderi networks is inescapable - and it is a system that is protected at all costs.

Shahid Malik, a member of Labour's National Executive, told the BBC that the Party has unwittingly allowed the clans to infiltrate British politics by influencing who is chosen from within Pakistani communities to go forward for candidate selection.

"One of the things that has held back British Pakistanis and Kashmiri's in this country has been the clan mentality, how people support and who people support," said Mr Malik.

"It hasn't been based on merit and that has certainly had a major impact in terms of letting down the British Pakistani community as a whole.

"The Labour Party and other parties got used to dealing with those [clan] people and there seems to be an unwitting collusion there between the parties and first generation British Pakistanis."

First generation support

Many first generation Pakistani settlers in the UK found that the Biraderi system provided essential support and identity as it provided links back to the villages of rural Punjab and Pakistani administered Kashmir.

We miss out from having a voice because we are too busy looking inward and fighting among ourselves
Zaffer Tanveer
For the second and third generation it has less relevance. Yet few believe they are able to break the grip it exerts on communities.

As one former local council election candidate told the BBC: "You could say you couldn't fight a political fight without using the Biraderi system".

According to those with inside knowledge of the system, when a candidate is chosen for election, it will usually be a Biraderi elder.

He will have been chosen by his clan on the basis of bloodlines rather than personal ability. His name goes out to the extended clan in Pakistan and the UK.

Alliances between politicians and Biraderi elders in Pakistan lead to leaders travelling to the UK during elections and instructing their clan members to vote for a particular candidate. Without this support, the candidate is doomed.

Growing frustrations

Lord Nazir Ahmed, Britain's only Pakistani member of the House of Lords, has fallen foul of Biraderi politics.

Lord Nazir Ahmed
Lord Ahmed: Accused clans of holding him back
"I know in Peterborough, Bradford, in Birmingham, when they put up candidates, from the Jatt Biraderi or the Rajput Biraderi, it does not matter what their politics is, when it comes to voting they will vote for their own.

"And this is what happened during my Parliamentary selections. People said 'Well he's a Jatt so we won't vote for him'."

The continued Biraderi influence means there is a growing frustration within communities that the 'wrong people' are entering politics.

Critics of politicians involved in Biraderi politics say they are hungry for power and prestige rather than the most qualified to lead and make a difference.

In some cases, Biraderi rivalries will lead to a dummy candidate coming forward just to scupper the chances of another clan.

Ballot box
Pakistani elections: Influenced by clan allegiences
Zaffer Tanveer is the Bradford-based correspondent for the Daily Jang, one of Pakistan's leading newspapers.

"We miss out from having a voice because we are too busy looking inward and fighting among ourselves," he said.

"[People are] saying 'my Biraderi is better than your Biraderi and if I can't have it, I'm going to make sure that your not going to have it either'".

Reformers in the community accuse the main political parties of turning a blind eye to Biraderi politics which they believe is a corrupt force.

Shahid Malik said it was time the parties seeking to attract votes from within the Pakistani communities should change the way they recruit supporters.

Recruitment had to be based on a modern meritocratic system - rather than the "beaten path" of turning to clan leaders, he said.

"I think rightly people might be shocked by this clan mentality and that political parties in their own way have colluded by not challenging it," he said.

"Unless and until the main political parties take responsibility then the clan mentality will continue and people will continue to abuse the democratic process and we're not going to get the kind of healthy outcomes we are looking for."

The Biraderi is broadcast on BBC Radio 4 on Tuesday at 2000 BST and repeated on Sunday at 1700 BST.
You can have your say on the programme in a phone-in on the BBC Asian Network's Sonia Deol show on Wednesday from 0900 BST. See internet links for details.






If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.
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  Quote RajputGirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 18:18

   
Most of the North indians think that all south Indians are dark. 
 
There are even second-generation South Indians in America/Canada/UK, who say things like that. 
 
I've met South Indian-Americans, who had NO knowledge that variations existed among Southerners.  It was even kind of sad how they believed everything that their Punjabi friends told them, and would perpetuate the Aryan Invasion Theory.  LOL  
 
I've even heard lighter-skinned South Indian-Americans brag about how they look "Pakistani" and how they stand out at South Indian gathering.....um..okay. 
 
 These second-generation Southerners are only making judgements based on 5-6 South Indians they see, and haven't had the opporutunity to actually go to India and see millions of people. 
 
It's not just North Indians who say things like that. 


Edited by RajputGirl - 02-Aug-2006 at 18:27
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  Quote Aarya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2006 at 22:23
Guys how to post Photos in this forum?????
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  Quote M. Nachiappan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2006 at 08:05
Romila Thapar herself has backtracked her views on "Aryans".
 
The racial hypotheses and theories are mostly unscientific.
 
I think most of this forum readers have not read the postings on "Aryans" and "Dravidians".
 
In fact, I find poor response for the postings.
 
In India, particularly, in Tamilnadu, we suffer a lot because of these false hypotheses and theoriers thrusted on us, which work consciously, particularly in the minds of politicians.
 
UN has already passed resolutions condemining race hypotheses and theories and declared unscientific.
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  Quote RajputGirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2006 at 21:42
Aarya,
 
Just click on the picture's properties and put it in this format.
 
 
 
 
If you want to post a picture of yourself, you have to upload it to a photo hosting website.  Then, you got to use that photo's link an put it in the [IMG] format. 
 


Edited by RajputGirl - 07-Aug-2006 at 21:43
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  Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2006 at 23:14
Hey Guys,
 
RajputGirl, Shudra caste was added to three main castes in "Purush Sukta" by brahmins to insult and punish the Budhdhsithas.
 
In Ancient times, The center of power in north India, stayed with either Brahmins (Hindu) or Budhdhisthas. Kanishka the Great,
A Budhdhistha was uprooted fraudulently by his Brahmin minister.
 
Budhdhistha kingdoms were much famous and vast as compared to their rivals. While Brahmins were weaker but shrude.
 
In 475 AD when White Huns came to India, Brahmins assimilated them into kshtriyas namely Pratihar, Parmar, Chalukya, Chahman
(Making a false story of Agni Yagya at Mount Abu As u know its not possible for someone to take birth from Fire)
 
These kshtriyas being from a barabaric tribe quickly vanished the kingdoms of Budhdhisthas. They became Rulers of whole North India. Brahmins were the actual ruler of these kingdoms as no decision could be made without their consent.
 
 
After Times we find many other budhdhistha Kingdoms. These Kingdoms were always called "Shudra" Kingdom, Later on. Group of kshtriyas who went in accordance with Brahmans were called highest kshtriyas and rest were called "Shudras".
 
 
Till Date India is being ruled by Brahmans actually. Thats why the real rulers i.e. Yadavas, Lodhas, Kurmi, Kunbi, Kambojas are being called Shudra by origin.
 
Shri Krishna was also a Yadav. Would any Brahmin dare to call him Shudra.
 
Regards
 
Ashok Harsana
The Real Ranas, The Real Emperors of India. http://ashokharsana.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=gurjars
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  Quote Digvijay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 10:50
[QUOTE=ashokharsana]
In 475 AD when White Huns came to India, Brahmins assimilated them into kshtriyas namely Pratihar, Parmar, Chalukya, Chahman
(Making a false story of Agni Yagya at Mount Abu As u know its not possible for someone to take birth from Fire)


Ashok,
  What you have posted is not correct.  White Huns are not rajputs. Period.  Look let us resolve one topic on rajput vs Gujjar and then branch out to discuss more.
 
-Digs
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  Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 23:12
Thats what a Gujar herdsman or shepherd look like:
 
 
 
 
 
And This is a local Gujari
 
 
Regards
 
Ashok Harsana
The Real Ranas, The Real Emperors of India. http://ashokharsana.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=gurjars
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 23:34
editedEmbarrassed

Edited by zhongya - 20-Aug-2006 at 14:21
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  Quote RajputGirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 02:34
No, that's not me. I got that from some other site. 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 14:23
oh, ic.

yeah, then - there's a girl (a friend of a friend) who has a bunch of pics of herself up, her eyes have dulled a little bit, but she's really pretty.   If she got a nose job (lol - no offense to her) she'd be supermodel material.
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  Quote Digvijay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 14:42
Originally posted by zhongya

oh, ic.

yeah, then - there's a girl (a friend of a friend) who has a bunch of pics of herself up, her eyes have dulled a little bit, but she's really pretty.   If she got a nose job (lol - no offense to her) she'd be supermodel material.


Zhongya,
  How is all this relevant here?

-Digs
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  Quote Jay. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 14:44
I agree Digvijay. This thread had a couple of posts which were not relevant to the thread. we need to stick to topic!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 10:52
hiii i m a sindhi !
n guess wot--when i stayed at home for 2 months doing nothin--i turned out to be so fair that--people think i m greek or turkish
i have brown hair--dark brown eyes n my color is noways next to indian
my mum looks full greek
my dad looks lebanese
my bro looks arab
n i m a hindu!!
n i dono wot i look--but no ways next to being indian--although i want to!!
i got more greek n turkish frenz now
my other sindhi frenz also look different to the indians--infact one of my greek girlfriend resembles another sindhi girl that i know of, n in skool no one calls us indians!
moreover the sindhis and the italians have a same gesture to show anger
we call it 'bhuj' n they call it ''mouj'' n even some of their names end in ''ni''
their nose is juss like ours,, n we are of the same height, n like the same kind of music!--dono wot te matter is???
but i think same is the case wid pathans--once if the stay in a hily region--i guess they will get back their color!

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 11:23
dono if any one is fair or not--we sindhis and baluchis are genuinely persians--we come from the other side of the indus. But i cant understand one thing--why do u wanna trace back ur roots!
be proud to call urselves as juss indians!
n this theroy of aryan invasion is false--its a cock n bull story!
indians migrated to greece n all many years back. Aryans never invaded india. The word Arya has many other connotations as well.
but i know that--
pathans/punjabi jatts are made up of huns ann greeks(alexander left his 10000 men hoo maried the women n yeilded the children)
baluchis are made of dravidians(brahui) n baloch(kurdish+turkish)
sindhis are made up of parthians(persians) and scythians(sanskrit:saka)
gujjars came from georgia
kashmiris are composed of greeks, tarkhans(turkish), mongols, hebrews.
himachalis have mongol heritage
no other race is caucasian--not even the normal punjabis!
these races kept migrating ino interiors of india, due to islamic invasions.
Not many remained hindu. Many often migrated to different parts of india. As a result u can see many southindians being fair. Those who stayed back a significantly smaller in mumber, but are noticable.
newyas history is history, live in ur present!!
be juss indian!!

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  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 14:07
Originally posted by Aakash

dono if any one is fair or not--we sindhis and baluchis are genuinely persians--we come from the other side of the indus. But i cant understand one thing--why do u wanna trace back ur roots!
be proud to call urselves as juss indians!
n this theroy of aryan invasion is false--its a cock n bull story!
indians migrated to greece n all many years back. Aryans never invaded india. The word Arya has many other connotations as well.
but i know that--
pathans/punjabi jatts are made up of huns ann greeks(alexander left his 10000 men hoo maried the women n yeilded the children)
baluchis are made of dravidians(brahui) n baloch(kurdish+turkish)
sindhis are made up of parthians(persians) and scythians(sanskrit:saka)
gujjars came from georgia
kashmiris are composed of greeks, tarkhans(turkish), mongols, hebrews.
himachalis have mongol heritage
no other race is caucasian--not even the normal punjabis!
these races kept migrating ino interiors of india, due to islamic invasions.
Not many remained hindu. Many often migrated to different parts of india. As a result u can see many southindians being fair. Those who stayed back a significantly smaller in mumber, but are noticable.
newyas history is history, live in ur present!!
be juss indian!!

 
It's good to have someone this knowledgable on the forum..Problems solved. 
Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................
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