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Word "Aryan" is priced becoz of its Indic(Hindu)

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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Word "Aryan" is priced becoz of its Indic(Hindu)
    Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 23:28
    Nobody has an iota of doubt that the vedas were composed in the Sarasvathi region, I dont know why are u requesting me to concede that, when I have not made any claim or mention that they were written elsewhere.
   Comeone you are not even able to understand what I say
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 02:38
I dont know what logic made u to point out that it wa a gradual migration from the west into India and north West.
 
Simple.  We find evidence of Indo-Aryan place-names in historic eastern Iran/Afghanistan.  We also see how similar Indo-Aryan is to European languages.  Therefore, there had to be a place somewhere in between where that similarity began.  Archaeologically we find cultural drift from central Asia, into the region of the Oxus where the BMAC civilization thrived.  Here, the migrants left much of their central Asian culture behind, and continued onward into India where they adopted the local culture there.

My dear freind the Indus valley ruin precisely lie along the course of river Sarasvathi. Now going by the books you read I suppose Indus valley civilization is of the Dravidians.
 
And why not?  If there is one linguistic group which can demonstrate complete local developement, its the Dravidians!!!   Have you ever heard of the Brahui?  They live in southern Pakistan.  Their language is considered a northern form of Dravidian.  Yet, their language shows enough of a difference with southern Dravidian to make comparisons with other historic languages possible.  Enter, Elamite.   We now know that Brahui shows characteristics comparable with Elamite!!!   Brahui, therefore stands as a "connecting" language between Elamite and Dravidian, thus allowing us to speak of a "Elamo-Dravidian" language family.  Such a "bridge" speaks of a continuum of related languages stretching at one time, from southwestern Iran through the greater part of southern Iran, into southern Pakistan and into western India, and south into southern India!!!  Indus Valley Civ., falls right smack into that continuum!!!  One thing really bothers me - what do you have against the Dravidians?  
 
You need to take facts here nomads cant be in a position to evolve a great literature until if those setlled for a vey long period of time. And the Vedic people as described in the vedas were no nomads.
 
Wrong again.  Nomads adapt very quickly to a literate civilizations.  There are far too many examples in history to mention.  As far as the Vedic people are concerned, the Vedas described them as "non-urban, non-maritime, basically uninterested in exchange other than that involving cattle, and lacking in any forms of political complexity beyond that of a king whose primary function seeems to be concerned with warfare and ritual."  In warfare, the use of the horse and chariot is described for the storming of enemy "forts".  This describes a nomadic society, not the society of the Indus Valley Civ.  Out of curiosity, why does Indra "take the Seven Rivers as [his] own domain"? (RgVeda 10.49.9).   Didn't the Punjab belong to him before?

Again you are ignoring the basic facts here or otherwise  dont know other information. The mittani kings presence in the West asia region with a reduced pantheon of VEDIC GODS seems suggests that they migrated from India along the course of whcih it may be argued with success that the reduced pantheon of GODS is because of loss of culture and religion because of beig away from their original homeland.
 
There's a big, huge humongus problem with your theory - there is absolutely NOTHING to prove that they came from India.  There is no cultural flow traceable archaeologically westwards from India, and no Indian place-names between eastern Iran/Afghanistan and Mesopotamia.  The very proof YOU deny for "Aryan" migration into India is the VERY SAME proof that is completely absent from showing that the Mitanni came from India.  Again, there's no denial of the Indo-Aryan nature of the Mitanni nobility as well as facits of their language and some deities (other deities worshipped by the Mitanni were in fact Semitic and Hurrian, showing how they adopted local culture).  Again, language plays the most important role here.  Because Indo-Aryan is far too closely related to Iranian, they must have had a linguistic urheimat as well as an ursprache.   It was probably in northern Iran when the Mitanni separated from its Indo-Aryan kin to go into Mesopotamia, while the rest of Indo-Aryans went into India.  This is the simplest solution to the problem of linguistic origins.    

And you cant take the puranas, epics for your will full deducation and just ignore that other information mentioned in them.
 
All I did was to show how ridiculous it is to assign very high dates for ancient rulers when the Puranic evidence can be used to thwart such dating.
 
The puranas mention the migraition of Indian people to the west of its borders...
 
Yeah, but not far.  Still far too close to home to be considered relevant.

Your logic that the presence of vedic culture in the west of India meant a a migration of the people from the west is pretty absurd.
 
Well, if my "logic" is "absurd" than yours is even "more absurd".  How do you like that?

Indian geo political influence in most of the ancient times covered most of Afghanisthan so it is obvious that kabul river is going to be mentioned . It is cannot be an argument that support the westward migration...


Unfortunately my friend the only thing, the Migration theorists can argue to proove this migration is with linguists. As u see here u opted for physical evidence which never suported such a migration or invasion.
 
The linguistic evidence is far too revealing to be ignored.  The only people who try to ignore it are virtually all Indian, with only a handful of foreigners.  Try as they might, the consensus of linguists is that IE (including Indo-Iranian) came from somewhere else. 
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  Quote Iranduxt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 04:05
Originally posted by varma

    Nobody has an iota of doubt that the vedas were composed in the Sarasvathi region, I dont know why are u requesting me to concede that, when I have not made any claim or mention that they were written elsewhere.
   Comeone you are not even able to understand what I say
 
Yes you are right we are not able to understand you. We are not from planet Varma, where everything is made in India I mean made in Varma.Confused
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  Quote Vedam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 04:38
Verma calm down, don't get personal. I am proud of being Indian. Don't make offensive comments. You should respect all cultures believe me there is in Indian history elements that are quite shocking. Lay off Islam. 
Let me first say that i don't agree with Iranduxt views on anything to do with Aryas. I have also read her views on "INTELLECTUAL DISCUSSIONS" on "why Persians are proud" and i have given my response, and i'm glad Iranians did as well.
Iranduxt with your "leave me and my ancestors alone" because the Aryas don't and never really existed in India"  well in regards to your above comment -don't include me in your "we".
Now Verma you say "according to the books i've read", well tell me were you actually there with the Bharatas?? Your knowledge if i'm not wrong is also based on books.
I have just two question for you?
If the Aryas are of the Indus valley civilisation, why is the rhinoceros the most frequently depicted animal on Harrapan seals but the horse is absent which is central the vedas?
Why is there an indus valley script but no mention of it in the Vedas?
 


Edited by Vedam - 05-Jul-2006 at 04:41
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  Quote Iranduxt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 08:18
Originally posted by Vedam

Let me first say that i don't agree with Iranduxt views on anything to do with Aryas.  
 
Even Varma has been saying that through out his posts. Read his posts in this topic alone, "Aryan is a term, is a way of life, is only applied to people who follow the religion". It's not only me and everyone else who say that's what Aryan means to Indians. If you disagree maybe you should start telling your own people what Aryan is.
 
 
 


Edited by Iranduxt - 05-Jul-2006 at 08:22
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  Quote Iranduxt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 08:28
Originally posted by Vedam

I have also read her views on "INTELLECTUAL DISCUSSIONS" on "why Persians are proud" and i have given my response, and i'm glad Iranians did as well.
I have replied to your post on that topic, and have nothing else to say to you. I would appreciate it if you don't reply to my posts now.
Thank you
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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 08:36
SHarkinn : I have nothing against the Dravidians and  either way I am proud of the the heir of their sythesis(if their was any), for argument sake.
 
Vedam : Havent u read about the opposite claim of the the finding of horse
               bone though few in number. I reproduce those here and let me tell
               you not even 5% of the Harrapan sites were excavated till now.

Meanwhile, in several Harappan sites remains of horses have been found.  Even supporters of the AIT have admitted that the horse was known in Mohenjo Daro, near the coast of the Arabian Sea (let alone in more northerly areas), in 2500 BC at the latest.30 But the presence of horses and even domesticated horses has already been traced further back: horse teeth at Amri, on the Indus near Mohenjo Daro, and at Rana Ghundai on the Panjab-Baluchistan border have been dated to about 3,600 BC.  The latter has been interpreted as indicating horse-riding invaders31, but that is merely an application of invasionist preconceptions.  More bones of the true and domesticated horse have been found in Harappa, Surkotada (all layers including the earliest), Kalibangan, Malvan and Ropar.32 Recently, bones which were first taken to belong to onager specimens, have been identified as belonging to the, domesticated horse (Kuntasi, near the Gujarat coast, dated to 2300 BC).  Superintending archaeologist Dr. A.M. Chitalwala comments: We may have to ask whether the Aryans () could have been Harappans themselves. () We dont have to believe in the imports theory anymore.33

Admittedly, the presence of horses in the Harappan excavation sites is not as overwhelming in quantity as in the neolithic cultures of Eastern Europe.  However, the relative paucity of horse remains is matched by the fact that the millions-strong population of the Harappan civilization, much larger than that of Egypt and Mesopotamia combined, has left us only several hundreds of skeletons, even when men sometimes had the benefit of burial which horses did not have.

The implication for the question of the horses is that any finds of horses are good enough to make the point that horses were known in India, and that they were available to a substantially greater extent than a simple count of the excavated bones would suggest.  The cave paintings in Bhimbetka near Bhopal, perhaps 30,000 years old (but the datings of cave paintings are highly controversial), showing a horse being caught by humans, confirm that horses existed in India in spite of the paucity of skeletal remains.34 There is, however, room for debate on whether the animals depicted are really horses and not onagers.  Other cave paintings, so far undated, show a number of warriors wielding sticks in their right hands and actually riding horses without saddles or bridles.35

The fact that both the Austro-Asiatic and the Dravidian language families have their own words for horse (e.g. Old Tamil ivuLi, wild horse, and kutirai, domesticated horse) not borrowed from the language of the Aryans who are supposed to have brought the horse into India, should also carry some weight.  Partly because of the uncongenial climate, horses must have been comparatively rare in India (as they would remain in later centuries, when Rajput forces were attacked by Turkish invaders with an invariably superior cavalry), but they were available.

The evidence concerning horses remains nonetheless the weakest point in the case for an Indian Urheimat.  While the evidence is arguably not such that it proves the Harappan cultures unfamiliarity with horses, it cannot be claimed to prove the identity of Vedic and Harappan culture either, the way the abundance of horse remains in Ukraine is used to prove the IE character of the settlements there.  At this point, the centre-piece of the anti-AIT plea is an explainable paucity of the evidence material, so that everything remains possible.

This is true both at the level of physical evidence and on that of artistic testimony: the apparent absence of horse motifs on the Harappan seals (except one)36 can certainly be explained, viz. by pointing at the equally remarkable absence of the female cow among the numerous animal depictions on the seals, eventhough the cow must have been very familiar to the Harappans considering the frequent depiction of the bull.  A taboo on depictions of the two most sacred animals may well explain the absence of both the cow and the horse.  However, it is obvious that a positive attestation of the horse on the Harappan seals would have served the non-invasionist cause much better.
   

A fossil has been discovered from the Siwalik hills (Himalayan foothills): with short-pillare teeth and find limbe the horse is 15-hands long and perhaps date back to the stone age. (J.C.Ewart, Animal remains, in J.Curle, A Roman frontier post and its people (The Fort of Newstead), Glasgow: J. Mackehose and Sons, 1911, Appendix II, pp. 364,368). E.J. Ross reported the discovery of bones scattered over an area of about 40 ft., of a domesticated horse in the lowest level of Rana Ghundai I, close to Mohenjodaro and Ga_ndha_ra (pre-Harappan, contemporary with Hissar IA, Susa B and Middle Uruk in Iraq, assigned to ca. 3500-3400 B.C.) in a chalcolithis site of Northern Baluchistan . It should be noted, however, that these remains are not, as might be expected, those of small pony-like animals. The teeth were well examined by an expert veterinary officer before their dispatch to the Archaeological Department and he assured us that they are indistinguishable either in structure or in size from those of our modern cavalry horses. This points to a very long previous period of domestication. (E.J. Ross, Rana Ghundai, a chalcolithic site in Northern Baluchistan, Journal of Near Eastern Studies, 5, 1946, pp. 284-516; R.H. Dyson, Problems in the relative chronology of Iran 6000-2000 B.C. in R.W. Ehrick, Chronologies in old world archaeology, Chicago, Univ. of Chicago Press, 1965, pp. 215-50).

A.K.Sharma, The Harappan horse was buried under the dunes of..., in Puratattva, Bulletin of the Indian Archaeological Society, No. 23, 1992-93, pp. 30-34]: "At Surkotada the bones of the true horse (equus caballus Linn.) identified are from Period IA, IB and IC. (radiocarbon dates: 2315 B.C., 1940 B.C. and 1790 B.C respectively). With the correction factors, the dates fall between 2400 B.C. and 1700 B.C... In 1938 Mackay (FEM, Vol. I, p. 289) had remarked on the discovery of a clay model of horse from Mohenjodaro. 'I personally take it to represent horse. I do not think we need be particularly surprised if it should be proved that the horse existed thus early at Mohenjo-daro'. About this terracotta figurine Wheeler wrote: (Indus Civilization, Cambridge, 1968, p. 92): 'One terracotta from a late level of Mohenjodaro seems to represent a horse, reminding us that the jaw bone of a horse is also recorded from the same time, and that the horse was known at considerably early period in northern Baluchistan ... It is likely enough that camel, horse and ass were in fact all familiar feature of the Indus caravans.'... appearance of true horse from the neolithic sites of Koldihwa and Mahagara in Uttar Pradesh..." (Note: camel is also not depicted on Harappan inscriptions) The identification by Sharma has been endorsed by Prof. Sandor Bokonyi, Director of the Archaeological Institute, Budapest, Hungary (an archaeozoologist); he wrote in a letter dated 13 Dec. 1993 to the Director General of the Archaeological Survey of India: 'Through a thorough study of the equid remains of the prehistoric settlement of Surkotada, Kutcha, excavated under the direction of Dr. J.P. Joshi, I can state the following: The occurrence of true horse (equus caballus L.) was evidenced by the enamel pattern of the upper and lower cheek and teeth and by the size and form of incisors and phalanges (toe bones). Since no wild horses lived in India in post-Pleistocene times, the domestic nature of the Surkotada horses is undoutbtful. This is also supported by an intermaxilla fragment whose incisor tooth shows clear signs of crib biting, a bad habit only existing among domestic horses which are not extensively used for war."  

"Perhaps the most interesting of the model animals is one that I personally take to represent a horse.' (Mackay 1938, vol. I, p. 289; vol. II, pl. LXXVIII).  Lothal has yielded a terracotta figure of a horse. It has an elongated body and a thick stumpy tail, mane is marked out over the neck with a low ridge. Faunal remains at Lothal yielded a second upper molar. Bhola Nath of the Zoological Survey of India and GV Sreenivasa Rao of the Archaeological Survey of India note (S.R.Rao, 1985, p. 641): 'The single tooth of the horse referred to above indicates the presence of the horse at Lothal during the Harappan period. The tooth from Lothal resembles closely with that of the modern horse and has pli-caballian (a minute fold near the base of the spur or protocone) which is well distinguishable character of the cheek teeth of the horse.' "However, the most startling discovery comes from the recent excavation at Nausharo, conducted by Jarrige et al. (in press). In the Harappan levels over here have been found clearly identifiable terracotta figurines of this animal." (Lal, 1998, opcit., p. 112).





          
  
  






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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 08:44
Sorry for copy pasting,  but they are facts so it doesnt matter if I copy paste and those who stick to that horse was absent in Indus valley civilization, the famous one being Micheal Witzel this is how he argues 

Witzels argument is in the following lines: (1) No horse bone has been found in Harappan sites. (2) When pointed out that they are found in some instances, it is said they are only fragments and not full skeletons. (3) When pointed out they were found in more than one site it is said the layers in which they were found ought to have been eroded ones or disturbed. (4) When pointed out that the reports of horse bones were not by present day archaeologists but by the early pioneers it is said that those are dubious and decades old. (5) When pointed out they were reported by archaeological excavators then comes the argument that archaeologists are not trained zoologists and palaeontologists to comment on horse bones (though by the same argument no credence can be placed on Witzel's opinion as he is neither an archaeologist nor a palaeontologist). Such arguments are brought under reductio ad absurdum by logicians. More examples of wilful rejections of points can be cited throughout the article but suffice to say that for an unbiased reader, the whole article reads purely a personal attack on an individual writer and exhibits certain amount of impatience to listen to other view.
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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 08:53
Did the vedas mention about any other script? no

Sharkinn : You told " Nomads adopt well to literate civilizations" hahaha u
                   make me laugh and the way you rubbished me saying "Wrong
                   again".. Take the example Europe let in these better than
                    nomadic people the Libyans, Somalis, Pakis, Banghladeshis. Now did u find them adopting quickly to Literate Europe. Now similarly civilized people and literate people more than any body can adopt to any civilization not the nomads and illiterate backward people..
                It took a whole 1000 years for the GOTHS, germans to reach the sophistication of Romans and Greeks though they were neighbours to these civilizations...
   
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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 09:15
There's a big, huge humongus problem with your theory - there is absolutely NOTHING to prove that they came from India.  There is no cultural flow traceable archaeologically westwards from India, and no Indian place-names between eastern Iran/Afghanistan and Mesopotamia.  The very proof YOU deny for "Aryan" migration into India is the VERY SAME proof that is completely absent from showing that the Mitanni came from India.  Again, there's no denial of the Indo-Aryan nature of the Mitanni nobility as well as facits of their language and some deities (other deities worshipped by the Mitanni were in fact Semitic and Hurrian, showing how they adopted local culture).  Again, language plays the most important role here.  Because Indo-Aryan is far too closely related to Iranian, they must have had a linguistic urheimat as well as an ursprache.   It was probably in northern Iran when the Mitanni separated from its Indo-Aryan kin to go into Mesopotamia, while the rest of Indo-Aryans went into India.  This is the simplest solution to the problem of linguistic origins.   

   Now certain Varma lives in US, it is obvious that he came from India.
   it does'nt need a great mapping of my trail, checking my passport to
   say that I came  from India. But due to the 1500BC time frame, Their needs to be evidence to convince skeptics like you, but you should recoganise that with that reason again the evidence becomes all the more difficult to secure becoz of 1500 BC time frame.
     Here I havent got hold on any material of the origins of place names  in West asia, but u should forget the ability of Sanskrit unlike any other language contain the roots of most words. So it doesnt becoem that hard to  relate the names of places to Indian culture and langugaes

here are far too many examples in history to mention.  As far as the Vedic people are concerned, the Vedas described them as "non-urban, non-maritime, basically uninterested in exchange other than that involving cattle

            I really dont seem to know whether u are really reading RV. Vedas doesnt describe these people as non urban, non maritime and themsleves as nomads" but I guess u were reading the translations of 20th cenutry scholars most of who's translations were driven with justifying British colonisation of India.
           No longer it is beleived in the scholarly cirlces that RV people were non urban, non maritime. It has been refuted with valid arguments and this notion of the vedic people is no longer accepted.
    RV descriptions alone dispel this myths and a mere anaysys would tell you that Vedic people were no nomads. and they were urban, and maritime.I would present them upon ur request.

Vedam : I read the same books but I read the both side of the 
               arguments and deduce and weigh the archeological, astronomical and literary eidence and I dont take linguists as all linguistic theories are just hypotheisis.

   I am 23 years of age and I need to keep up with my studies in computer science as well I am really struck to the computer wasting a lot of time....
   I may reply slowly but have patience...

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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 09:36
I would ask to refer to this site to know some of the information about the evidence of  posiible cultural trail from India and Indic names in West asia beyongf Eastern Iran place names and the origin of kingdom names of West asia..

http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/connections/Western-Asia.php
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  Quote Vedam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 11:32
Iranduxt believe me i will not reply to your comments, unless i feel you are attacking different civilisations witth baseless comments, without foundation.
If you make such comments then be prepared for a reaction.
 


Edited by Vedam - 05-Jul-2006 at 14:09
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  Quote Vedam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 11:42
Originally posted by Iranduxt

Originally posted by Vedam

Let me first say that i don't agree with Iranduxt views on anything to do with Aryas.  
 
Even Varma has been saying that through out his posts. Read his posts in this topic alone, "Aryan is a term, is a way of life, is only applied to people who follow the religion". It's not only me and everyone else who say that's what Aryan means to Indians. If you disagree maybe you should start telling your own people what Aryan is.
 
 
 
 
For your information i have been arguing with Verma throughout this TOPIC, and you only say it in reference to Indians not Iranians, so as to exclude. Verma says it about all Aryans, that is the difference.
"maybe i should tell my own people what Aryan is" i think your quote sums you up.
I totally agree with Sharrukin who i presume is not of Indian origin.Its just like when you were attacking other Iranians because they dared to disagree with another Iranian. For me its not Indian V  iranian. TRUTH KNOWS NO ETHNICITY!.
  


Edited by Vedam - 05-Jul-2006 at 16:03
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  Quote Iranduxt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 16:14
You can have a dig at me as much as you like as you allready have been in the other topic "why Persians are proud", but you can't change facts, and you can't change history.

Edited by Iranduxt - 05-Jul-2006 at 23:31
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  Quote Vedam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 17:27

I don't even know why i am taking the bate. But its the way you word it.  

I recognise the glory of Persia believe me.
Your comments about  "all the mathamaticians, scientists, philosophers, engineers were from Persia until the Arabs introduced it to the rest of the world."
Yes fine if it makes you happy with your version of history and the facts, then good luck to you.
 
Thats it i'm not gonna engage in this anymore. 
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  Quote Iranduxt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 18:29
I have allready explained so many times on that topic to what I was exactly trying to say.
 
And what I meant by saying that you can not change facts and history was in regards to what Aryan means to Indians.


Edited by Iranduxt - 05-Jul-2006 at 19:33
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  Quote Vedam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 03:40
Originally posted by Iranduxt

I have allready explained so many times on that topic to what I was exactly trying to say.
 
And what I meant by saying that you can not change facts and history was in regards to what Aryan means to Indians.
 
As i have said to you so many many times.
The Arya in the Rig veda are a ethno-linguistic group, there are many tribes by name, they all speak the Arya language and take part in the VEDIC Ritual. Those that are not Aryas are the dasas, who are the enemies of the Aryas and Arya Gods.
I dont what you base your facts and history on.
Read the Vedas before you make yor comments.
I am not the only INDIAN  who subscibes to this. I suggest you read Romila Thapar -a history of India.
You say "i have been to india i know what Indians look like" what Indians are you refering to, its a vast country of 1 billlion.
Have you seen the Brahmins of Kashmir, the Khatris of Delhi and Punjab, many originally from Peshawar, the Rajputs, sindhis, Gujaratis, chitpavans who have grey eyes, Tamils, bengalis.
Which is india, we have 15 official languages .
I some how don't think you have seen each and every indian, because you have relations there.
Aryas,  Greeks, Parthians, Sycthians, Kushanas, White huns all have entered India at some point and settled. That is why we are such a versatile people.
I am not gonna be bated by you anymore. I have nothing left to say to you. YOU CAN THINK WHAT YOU WANT
 


Edited by Vedam - 06-Jul-2006 at 05:11
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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 08:58
Vedam,
            Romila Thapar's scholarship has been under serious questions and it is pretty evident in her works. You just need to read her critics to jst get a glimpse of how many blunders she had made with the hiostory of India.
          And one more thing, in her works Romila Thapar till recently classified Aryans as some one who invaded India massacred the local population and establishe their rule and introduced caste system. Now after the recent findings she started to air that it might be miogration that brought Aryans to India and it is only fairly recently that she classified Aryans as ethno Linguistic groups. Romila thapar's work is consumed by communism and she is no scholar, she is just a historian(I can becoem a historian by reading the works of my predecessors and teaching it to the students), thus she became a historian. I dotn think if she ever had the intellect to intrepet the archeological and genetic findingss, but cites some other bigot like WITZEL who's scholarship is just linguists and comments on every other field.
        Romila Thapars book a hsitory of India is not exhaustive and I dont think any intelligent perso will make an opinion just by reading it, but u need to start reading the opposite view or Critique of that book where in the possible blunders willl be highlighted thus overall contributing to a more truthfull account of history.
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  Quote varma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 10:00
          This is breif critiqe of Romila thapars book History of India http://www.voiceofdharma.com/indology/thaparreview1.html
           Please develop a habit of cross checking which will help understand an issue much better rather than holding some book as ultimate error free compilation....Dont behave like Muslm
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  Quote Vedam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 10:14
Verma I realise i am arguing with an extremist hindu nationalist, and any debate with you is a waste of time, as you have completely rewritten history. You have your own Hinduvta historians who have their own "evidence" and everything prior is a result of  British Colonialism. Ive heard it all before .
Let me guess "Abraham means non-brahman" 
 
For your infomation i have read various counter views as well, and your views are  mainly just conjecture without proof, and your "historians" seem to have a hindutva taint, whose so called facts are questionable, and far from conclusive. 
You are very judgemental and speak in an extremely offensive away. I do not know if i want to bother debateing with such a person.
You say you don't mean to offend any cultures and then say "don't behave like muslim".
This is really not worth my time and energy. 
You tell me to develop a habit of cross checking,
I don't need to be told  how to cross check anything, especially by you!!!!!! Believe me i know how to analyse.
I live in the UK and have muslim friends, and your comment has offended me.
You can speak on your own behalf but do not speak on behalf of all Indians.
A 23 year old is telling me how develop a habit of cross checking rather than holding some book as ultimate error free.
Who  do you think you are!!!!!!!!!!
Do not reply to my posts again.
  


Edited by Vedam - 08-Jul-2006 at 11:28
Vedam
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