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bg_turk View Drop Down
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Free to go home
    Posted: 23-Jun-2006 at 06:57
A really good news to those concerned about the displaced persons issue in Cyprus. Years of recourse to the European Courth of Human Rights and seeking justice have finally paid off for Greek Cypriots displaced persons. 

A recently set up Property Comission in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus has decided to return the homes of two refugees, and offered a handsome compensation sum to another. 

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=26485&archive=1


TWO Greek Cypriots and their families are free to move back to homes they abandoned 32 years ago, the newly-formed Turkish Cypriot property commission said yesterday.

Another Greek Cypriot, a commission statement said, has been offered financial compensation for property he or she lost, but no longer wishes to use.

All three applicants got what they wanted, head of the commission Sumer Erkman told the Cyprus Mail yesterday, adding: They have all been contacted and have accepted our offers without the need to revert to the courts.


I think this is a very positive development, and shows that the TRNC is sincere in iits comittment towards rectifying past unjustices against Greek Cypriots. I hope the TRNC will continue to provide justice to all unfairly displaced persons, and assist Greek Cypriots that wish to return to their homeland to become fully fledged and equal citizens and integrate within its society.



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Posts: 694 		  Quote Digenis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2006 at 14:52
Well...watching the European dream flying away makes Turkey and the abortion of her invasion in Cyprus,to "play the nice guy"...

30 years of refuses and arrogance..
Sorry guys,u must make some real steps forward.

You are under Republic of Cyprus thumb.
Realize it ..and change attitude.
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Posts: 2200 		  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2006 at 15:37
just wondering

but what can stop Greek Cyprus to not give its vote for Turkey's admission to the EU?
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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2006 at 16:15
Originally posted by mamikon

just wondering

but what can stop Greek Cyprus to not give its vote for Turkey's admission to the EU?
Is not Greek Cyprus.Is the Republic of Cyprus that the Northern part is occupy from the Turkish armed forces.That's why Cyprus never allow the entrance of the Turkey in the EU.
Of course there are and other issues  such as Aegean, Human Rights e.t.c. that Turkey must find solutions.
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2006 at 16:27
Originally posted by Digenis

30 years of refuses and arrogance..
Sorry guys,u must make some real steps forward.

You are under Republic of Cyprus thumb.
Realize it ..and change attitude.

 
Look who is speaking. How many steps has Turkey already made, and how many more do you expect Turkey to make, and what steps if any has the Greek Cypriot Administration taken at all since the referendum?
 
I am tired and fed up with the Greek Cypriot demands who are abusing and exploiting the EU membership. In fact I think the TRNC leadership and President Talat are too soft in their attitude towards the Greek Cypriot leader Papadopolous. President Talat must stop begging the Greeks for unification, and he should work towards the recognition of the TRNC.
 
I was happy that Greek Cypriot are getting their properties back for purely humanitarian reasons. My positions was and still remains that the territorial integrity, soveregnity and independence of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus are inviolable and undeniable.
 
As far as the veto of the Greek Cypriots is concerned. The threat of veto is always more powerful than the use of the veto, and certainly using the veto would be like a death sentence to the Papadopolous leadership for they will exhaust all their weapons against Turkey.
Besides the Cypriot veto is not that important since it is not the only one, but one of many obstacles to Turkish membership. Even if Turkey were to fully capitulate on the Cyprus issue and satisfy all of the extreme GC demands, this will not guarantee Turkish membership. That veto cannot be an incentive for Turkey to accept Greek Cypriot demands. Greek Cypriots are welcome to use it.


Edited by bg_turk - 26-Jun-2006 at 19:25
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2006 at 16:29
Originally posted by akritas

Is not Greek Cyprus.Is the Republic of Cyprus that the Northern part is occupy from the Turkish armed forces.
 An entity which has only Greeks in its administration despite its own constitution cannot be anything but Greek. The Greek Cypriot administration does not represent the Turkish Cypriots in any way, shape or form, and it does not have the moral right, nor the physical means to do so.
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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2006 at 16:41

You like or don't Cyprus has one administration recognized from the EU,UN and the only superpower.If the Turkey allow the Turkish Cypriots to express free their opinion I am sure that they vote Cyprus.Not Turkey or Greece.
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2006 at 17:34
In reply to akritas...
 
1. Is the Greek administration the legitimate government of Cyprus?
The policy of the UN and all major powers has been to recognize only one single state in Cyprus, and their preference for one or another reason was to extend that recognition only to the Greeks, although the constitution of the Republic of Cyprus, which de facto ceased to exist in 1974 when the Greek generals overthrew the legtimiate president, clearly states that the government mast be a partnership of Greek and Turkish Cypriots. The world continue to afford full recognition to the Greek government, although that government does not have a single Turkish Cypriot in it, and even worse it is making no effort to represent the Turkish Cypriot community.  
 
I wouldn't advise you to expect this situation to continue indefinitely though. During the negotiations the UN always treats GC and TC on equal footing and refers to both of their governments as "leaderships". The UK position on the recognition of the Greek dominated area as the sole government is also very clear:
 
Although the UK Government deals with the Greek Cypriot Administration as if they were the lawful Government of Cyprus, it does not formally recognise them as such. On 25 April 1980 the Secretary of State for Foreign & Commonwealth Affairs made the following statement in the House of Lords[130]: "We have conducted a re-examination of British policy and practice concerning the recognition of Governments. This has included a comparison with the practice of our partners and allies. On the basis of this review we have decided that we shall no longer accord recognition to Governments. The British Government recognises States in accordance with common international doctrine."
 
2. Are Turkish Cypriots prounification and is Turkey 'not letting them express their opinion'?
 
Turkish Cypriots have clearly expressed their will for unification of the island in the UN unification plan, but after the bitter slap in the face and the resounding OXI of the Greeks I am sure many of them feel rejected and are reconsidering their position. Recent opinion polls in the North show that there is drop in the support for unification, and repeat of the referendum would likely result in failure in the TRNC this time too. More surprisingly opinion polls in the South show that many Greeks (especially the young) would rather not live with Turkish Cypriots.
 
The second part of the question and your illusions that Turkey is somehow restraining the free will of Turkish Cypriots, I can just say it is total garbage. The TRNC is a full fledged democracy and Turkish Cypriots are free to express their opinions and vote for whichever party they want. There are human rights organizations that monitor the situation in the North, and interestingly the recent freedom of speech report published by the US was actually more critifcal of the South than the North.
 


Edited by bg_turk - 24-Jun-2006 at 17:40
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Posts: 2200 		  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jun-2006 at 18:11
so what steps can turkey take if Papadopolous vetoes Turkey's entrance?
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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2006 at 03:45
I prefer to consider the EU,UN positions and  decisions congruent with the problem  and not article from anyone and specially British. TC will take the money from EU because Republic of Cyprus allow it.All the management for where goes the money is under the supervising of the Cyprish Administration.
Because I don't want to open a new flame regarding the Cyprus issue (black list) I repeat what i said. Leave the Cypriots alone  
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2006 at 06:08
Greeks vs  Turks the billionth time is about to take place.

Edited by machine - 25-Jun-2006 at 06:09
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2006 at 12:50
Originally posted by mamikon

so what steps can turkey take if Papadopolous vetoes Turkey's entrance?
If Mr Papadoupolos chooses to veto Turkey's membership then obviously Turkish membership will be suspended, and the Greeks will be left empty-handed.
 
But the interesting question is not what will happen if Greek Cyprus uses its veto, but what will happen if he does not. Cyprus Mail has a very interesting paragraph on the issue:
 
Turkey does not appear to be willing to give in for the sake of opening one of the 35 chapters in its long negotiations. After all, it does not really gain anything that it can use domestically to justify the concessions it will have to make. If Turkey, therefore, is unwilling to budge, the negotiations will stop at the next chapter. Then what? Turkey will be punished, but what will Cyprus gain?

In fact things can get worse than that. If, as should be expected, Cyprus comes under intense pressure, as happened last week, and backs down, it will lose its credibility. It will then have the same fate as the boy who cried wolf too many times. When it will mean what it says, no one will believe it. These are the risks of engaging in brinksmanship and pursuing a policy based on threats. You look stupid if you dont pull the trigger and if you do pull it, you also hurt yourself. Threats work when the loss to the other side is much bigger and serious than yours. Good timing is essential.

Repeated use of threats and ultimatums quickly loses credibility. For threats or vetoes to be effective, they have to be used sparingly. This Cypriot strategy that has been elevated to the status of dogma and has been expressed in the single sentence we have 70 vetoes may prove to be a blunder of colossal proportions.

 
Source:
Take your popcorn and sit back. Expect interesting developments on Cyprus over the next few monthsWink


Edited by bg_turk - 25-Jun-2006 at 12:53
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2006 at 13:12

Interestingly it is now the Greek side that is obstructing justice on the island and trying to prevent refugees from returning to their homes. Greek politicians have called on refugees not to seek restitution from the institutions of the TRNC. Cyprus Mail reports:

The patriotic populists of the government alliance have adopted a very different tune to the president, who said the government could not be seen impeding the course of justice recommended by the ECHR. AKEL chief, Demetris Christofias said the applying to the committee was a condemnable act and wondered how it was possible for Greek Cypriots to give an air of legality to the authorities in the north. EDEK chief Yiannakis Omirou claimed that applying to the court was tantamount to a criminal offence, a view shared by DIKO deputy Andreas Angelides. The most original of all was Euroko deputy Rikkos Erotokritou, who argued that applicants to the committee should be named and shamed, as they were causing great harm to our struggle.

The nerve of these politicians defies belief. For almost 32 years Greek Cypriot politicians have advanced their personal careers by selling big myths to the refugees, promising that all would return to their homes, that vindication was imminent and, finally, that EU membership would right all wrongs of the occupation. The politicians who are today condemning the greedy refugees for putting their personal interest above the countrys are the same people who urged them to reject the Annan plan which envisaged the return of almost half the refugees to their homes and a compensation scheme (however stilted) for the others because a European solution that respected everyones human rights was in the offing.
 
 
 
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2006 at 13:25
Originally posted by machine

Greeks vs  Turks the billionth time is about to take place.
 
I find the developments around Cyprus very interesting and very exciting, and I am sure many other Greeks and Turks are also interetested.
 
Surely nobody forces you to participate in this thread if you do not like it.
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Posts: 694 		  Quote Digenis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jun-2006 at 15:30
Originally posted by bg_turk

 
Look who is speaking. How many steps has Turkey already made,


If you mean steps forward..:  0
If you mean steps backward...i suppose many.


"Greek Cypriot Administration "


Well,u ll get the prize for inventions for sure! LOL
3 words/definitions  were  invented by you so far!

"Pan-hellenism" , "Grecomacedonians", "Greek Cyprus Administration"

The world before You knew :greek nationalism, Macedonians,and Republic of Cyprus.Wink

A real step forward for example,is to start a trial for the minister of the so called state of Northern Cyprus, who -in front of cameras- murdered a Greek Cypriot ,by shooting him (!)



Edited by Digenis - 25-Jun-2006 at 15:32
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2006 at 18:13
Originally posted by Digenis

A real step forward for example,is to start a trial for the minister of the so called state of Northern Cyprus, who -in front of cameras- murdered a Greek Cypriot ,by shooting him (!)
 
Where is the evidence for these statements, and which minister are you talking about?  The shooting incident that I am aware of is that of a person who attempted to violate the soveregnity of the TRNC and bring a TRNC flag down. The Turkish soldiers might have reacted too harshly too shoot him, but the shooting was certainly not unprovoked. Surely the person knew too well what would happen to him, and yet he decided to proceed with trying to take the TRNC flag down.
 
Talking about trials ... maybe we can start with the war criminal Papadoupolos.
 
This description of Papadopulos comes from Andreas Ziartides, a leading Greek Cypriot trade unionist and a member of AKEL, the Communist party that was one of Papdopoulos main backers in the recent election.

Mr Ziartides is quoted in the Greek Cypriot daily Alıthea, which published a profile of Papadopoulos on 2 February 2003.

 
I had realised that he had no ear for concessions or compromise regarding the Turks.

I have identified a very negative characteristic. He is a sickened Turk-hater. He is a sickened racist with regard to the Turks. With Tasos as interlocutor, it t is impossible to find a compromise with the Turks.

The new leader in the south certainly has a long history of anti-Turkish activity. On 23 October 1967, he made the following speech at the celebration of United Nations Day in Limasol: Freedom for us means only the integration of this southern outpost of Hellenism into national entity.

It was this belief that led him to take action during the attacks on 15 November 1967 against the Turkish Cypriot villages of Kophinou (Geitkale) and Ayios Theodoros (Boğazii). The aim of these attacks were again to eliminate the Turkish Cypriots in these villages situated at strategically important places near Limasol, from where tens of thousands of Greek soldiers were clandestinely launched in the island.

Tassos Papadopoulos was also one of the Greek Cypriot leaders who tried to make the 1960 Constitution unworkable and thereby achieve ENOSIS His role in the Akritas Plan, a plot to wipe out the Turkish Cypriot population, was noted as follows in the book Genocide Files (p.81) by British journalist Harry Scott Gibbons: In order to implement this scheme (altering unilaterally the Constitution to achieve ENOSIS), Makarios entrusted Polykarpos Yorgadjis, Tassos Papadopoulos and Glafkos Clerides with the task of formulating a secret plan of action. This plan, the famous Akrtitas Plan
 
It is totally unbelievable that such a war criminal can become a president.


Edited by bg_turk - 26-Jun-2006 at 18:16
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Posts: 659 		  Quote Neoptolemos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2006 at 19:46
Originally posted by bg_turk

The Turkish soldiers might have reacted too harshly too shoot him, but the shooting was certainly not unprovoked. Surely the person knew too well what would happen to him

This is unbe-f*cking-lievable... you disgust me...
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2006 at 19:53
Originally posted by Neoptolemos


This is unbe-f*cking-lievable... you disgust me...


The man crossed into enemy territory and tried to lower and taken down the enemy flag with hundreds of enemy soldiers around him. Was he expecting them to stand idly and watch how their flag is taken down by him?


Edited by bg_turk - 26-Jun-2006 at 19:55
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Originally posted by bg_turk


The man crossed into enemy territory and tried to lower and taken down the enemy flag with hundreds of enemy soldiers around him. Was he expecting them to stand idly and watch how their flag is taken down by him?

Indeed, when you go into the buffer zone in cyprus, that's what you should expect:
"Tasos Isaak, a Greek Cypriot, was beaten to death in the United Nations (UN) buffer zone on 11 August by Turkish Cypriots or alleged members of the right-wing Turkish organization Grey Wolves. ...
Tasos Isaak was beaten unconscious with clubs and stones after he and another man were trapped in barbed-wire barricades. He died soon afterwards from severe head injuries. Video footage clearly showed him being beaten by three Turkish Cypriot or Turkish counter-demonstrators while a Turkish Cypriot police officer watched without intervening. During a demonstration following his funeral on 14 August, Solomos Solomou, also a Greek Cypriot, was shot dead by Turkish Cypriot soldiers as he tried to pull down a flag from a sentry post on the Turkish Cypriot side of the buffer zone. ...
In October, Petros Kakoulis, a Greek Cypriot, was shot dead by Turkish Cypriot soldiers when he wandered into the buffer zone, reportedly while gathering snails. According to his son-in-law, who was with him, six Turkish Cypriot soldiers approached Petros Kakoulis who immediately raised his arms in a gesture of surrender. The soldiers fired at him, allegedly shooting again at close range after he had fallen to the ground."
source: http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR010011997?open&of=ENG-DNK

Would you like to see pictures?? I can post them if you like but they're going to be ugly...
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Posts: 316 		  Quote Bashibozuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 06:36
I guess that's not unusual for a person to get shot if he attacks the flag of the neighbor state at their outpost. But I wonder if a regular militant gets shot by the soldiers while attacking their flag, why Matsakis, a member of European Parliement doesn't. I also wonder how can the Greek authority of Cyprus be a member of EU, in conflict with thetreaties of Zurich and London in 1960.
 
Anyway, altough he returned to TRNC after a while to  bring some cake to the president as he said, and he was taken to the court. I remember he also came to Turkey to protest TRNC once..LOL
Garibim, namima Kerem diyorlar,
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Hastayim, derdime verem diyorlar,
Marasli Seyhoglu Satilmis'im ben.
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