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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turkish words in your language
    Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 02:20
As a linguist, I agree with barbar.  Azeri and Persian has NOTHING to do with each other.  My observation is that Persians like to say they are related. 
 
In terms of racial background, it is true that there is possibly some link between Persians and Azeris.  However, it is more than ridiculous to claim they are even slighhtly related.  Azeri is a Turkic language closely related to and mutually understandable with Turkish.  
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  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 11:04
mmm
 
OKs ill tell u a few words in Macedonian... but i have to tell u that this is based on a South-Eastern Dialect...
most of them are curses but ill show them anywayz :P
 
dulap   - cabinet, storage place
siktar   - get lost, make way
sifer     - in the future, time to come
bujrum - welcome
shapshal - a stupid or dumb person
surtuk - inapropriate person
andzak- so far (so fat i have only dug up one hole)
...
 
if anyone is not shore about these words or can tell me the acctual turkis way of saying it... pls write here
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  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 11:08

bashibuzluk in macedonia is known as the iregular army of the Ottoman Empire that usualy wore porly disciplined and therefore ransaked most of the rural areas under the empire.

Bashibuzluk in modern terms means "doin what you want" or "doing something without a proper guidence or control"

(this again is for the south-eastern parth of Macedonia)

 

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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2006 at 12:54
In persian:
 
gelen geden ( a part of the guns which moves back and force)
Ordu ( army)
qondaq ( the part of the gun)
mermi (bullet)
top( big guns)
Yataqan ( a part of the motor)
qoldor (bully)
qoromsaq ( a.. hole)
efe ( class)
qatir ( mulle)
yabu ( kind of horse)
chalesh ( try)
Siktir ( ..uck off)
Qahbe(bitch)
dashaq (ball)
yaraq ( metal parts, mostly for weapons)
Kharboze (Karpuz) , melon
yandim, yandim ( not feeling good)
qermez (qirmiz) , red
qeytan ( rope)
......
shorba (corba)
bozbash ( a knid of corba)
qima ( main food)
qorma ( main food)
kebab
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2006 at 13:48
Originally posted by shinai

In persian:
 
gelen geden ( a part of the guns which moves back and force)
Ordu ( army)
qondaq ( the part of the gun)
mermi (bullet)
top( big guns)
Yataqan ( a part of the motor)
qoldor (bully)
qoromsaq ( a.. hole)
efe ( class)
qatir ( mulle)
yabu ( kind of horse)
chalesh ( try)
Siktir ( ..uck off)
Qahbe(bitch)
dashaq (ball)
yaraq ( metal parts, mostly for weapons)
Kharboze (Karpuz) , melon
yandim, yandim ( not feeling good)
qermez (qirmiz) , red
qeytan ( rope)
......
shorba (corba)
bozbash ( a knid of corba)
qima ( main food)
qorma ( main food)
kebab
 
 
 
 
And this list goes on..
qishlaamishi kardan, to set a camp for winter, to move to somewhere for winter, to spend winter.
aachaar, key
aagaa, mister
koch kardan, to migrate
kangash kardan , to consult
otaaq, room
qoshun, army,army member
taalaan, plunder
 etc...
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  Quote Dan Carkner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 11:22
This is a very interesting thread, thanks for the link too that says Turkish is the easiest language ;)  Maybe I will try to learn it one day then, since Arabic is so hard (I tried). 
 
I hear there are particularly a lot of Turkish loanwords in Egyptian colloquial Arabic.
 
It's funny, talking to people who speak Serbian/Bosnian, if you are talking to a Christian they seem to just say that turkish loanwords are "obscure/archaic words" but a muslim will quickly mention that they are old turkish words ;)
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  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 08:41

Hahah man im Orthodox and I use Turkish words but i don't have to mention that they are Turkis... We all know that.

BTW

 

KEBABS RULE!!!

(especialy doner with humus Big smile)
 
I cant get enough I eat at least one a week (minimum)
 
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  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 00:23

Originally posted by shinai

mermi (bullet)

I think it is arabic, anyway it entered persian from Arabic language.


efe ( class)

french originally (effet)


Siktir ( ..uck off)

thats azari, persian don't use it.

dashaq (ball)

again not used in persian


Kharboze (Karpuz) , melon

first of all it is Qarpuz or Qarpiz in azari,then kharbozeh has different root from Qarpuz it is from pahlavi Kharbuzak(dehkhoda dictioanry)
may be turks borrowed it from central asian Iranic languages.


yandim, yandim ( not feeling good)

not used in persian


qermez (qirmiz) , red

heavily disputed


shorba (corba)

persian


bozbash ( a knid of corba)

I'm not sure, I think you mentioned it because of its suffix bash,didn't you?


kebab

its semitic from akkadian
 
  
Tangriberdi:


qishlaamishi kardan, to set a camp for winter, to move to somewhere for winter, to spend winter.

thats qeshalq(origianlly qishlaq) opposite of yeylaq(origianally yaylaq)spending summer.


aachaar, key

in kurdish not persian, in persian it means screw driver, spanner or wrench


aagaa, mister

in persian it means Mr, above meaning is kurdish.Its spelling is AqA, although in Tehran accent it is AghA.

 

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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 10:16
Originally posted by Hushyar


efe ( class)

french originally (effet)
effet = effect, impression in English so they arent related with eachothers.

Only from similarity of writing you cant conclude wich origin that word is...

A good example, "beter" in Turkish means bad, something badly but "beter" in Dutch means "better".
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 15:33
Hushyar
efe ( class)
french originally (effet)
 
The two are not related or connected, Efe as a meaning has nothing to do with "effect" and they don't share a common etymology either.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 17:51
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by Hushyar


efe ( class)

french originally (effet)
effet = effect, impression in English so they arent related with eachothers.

Only from similarity of writing you cant conclude wich origin that word is...

A good example, "beter" in Turkish means bad, something badly but "beter" in Dutch means "better".
Beter used in Turkish is a Persian word
Bad means Bad in Persian too
Batar means Worse in Persian
Batarin means the worst.
As I am of Iranian Turkmen origin from my side, I have little knowledge of Persian.
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2006 at 18:09

Hushyar;

It looks like you are not familiar with the Persian accent Of TehranWink

So Look at the following forms:
"yalla siktir binam ": heavily used in south of Theran.
"dashaqesho nadari amu" used in Tehrani accent.
about the kharboze, I hope the Turkish speaker will answer you.
Bozbash(boz =gray this corba is grey + bash=head) 
I did not understand your point about qermez, what did you expect?
Persian is not reach in vovels so  words change.
 
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2006 at 00:24
'aqa', 'tumen', 'serteq' (Turkic *syrtyq)
'qeleq' (Turkic *qylyq), sandali (old Altaic, used today in Mongolian = chair), sabun (old Altaic, used today in Mongoilan), kankash (Turkic *kengesh).

I've got to think more.
    

Edited by gok_toruk - 17-Nov-2006 at 00:25
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2006 at 02:08

first of all what I will write here is not about official or written persian,but about spoken persian some times slang terms specially in Tehranian dialect.

Originally posted by DayI


A good example, "beter" in Turkish means bad, something badly but "beter" in Dutch means "better".

I can't add anything more to what Tangriberdi has said.

Originally posted by DayI


effet = effect, impression in English so they arent related with eachothers.
Only from similarity of writing you cant conclude wich origin that word is...

Originally posted by Bulldog


The two are not related or connected, Efe as a meaning has nothing to do with "effect" and they don't share a common etymology either

I think you misudrestood both me and shinai.Class in persian has many meaning and the above meaning is not classroom or social rank,  he compound verbs like "klAs GozAtshan","Klas Amadan(klas umadan)"," effe Amadan(umadan)", or slang term "ye effeye kharaki umadan"  means make impression on others or show himself or herself(although it depends on context).
As an example a boy rides a motorcycle as suddenly see a beautiful girl driving a luxurios car, if he wants to show himself and also if he is a typical "javad"(I realy don't know how to translate this word, ask shinai) he rises his motorcycle front weel and drive by only one weel, others will say "un pesare effe umad" means  that boy stupidly show himself.

Historically this word was used as "effe gozAshtan" in the older time, and it was used as a joking replacement for the origianl  word "ta'sir gozAshtan" means make impression on somebody or somethingelse. Because it has never been officialized and has never used in any ofiical written text, as time passed it has got many several meaning and used in many several forms,but origianally it is borrowed from french, and it is not a standard word in official persian(you can not find it in any dictionary)

DayI

majority of western words that entered persian befor 60s , entered by their french pronounciation.

 
 
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  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2006 at 02:12

Originally posted by shinai


It looks like you are not familiar with the Persian accent Of Tehran

No ,I have just been grown up in Tehran,but anyway tehran is itself a country.

Originally posted by shinai


So Look at the following forms:
"yalla siktir binam ": heavily used in south of Theran.
"dashaqesho nadari amu" used in Tehrani accent.

southern Tehran (like Khalaj, shahr e rey , Islam shahr, robat karim,...) and also Islam Abad and Hesarak in Karaj,...are typical azeri islands in Tehran and majority of its descendants themselves or their parents are azeri immigrants, (although in recent years heavy afghan immigration greatly
changed demography of these places) majority of people in those places are native azeri speakers,I mean they are speaking azeri in their home. I myself have seen many old men or women there that don't dare to go out from thier home too far because after living there for many years they still don't know persian.
In those places children although in school or streets speak persian with eachother, but unintentionally heavily mixed azeri terms  with persian,both time when speaking persian or azeri.

the terms you wrote are not common in Tehranian slang, for example instead of "dashaqesho nadAri amu" usually it is said "Khayasho nadAri amu".Compare your words with this list"iki sAnieh, najesan hamshahri, yaxchi san, bilmiram,..." these words although not official but majority of people know about them, and then look at this list"Chaqu, chaxmaq,..." which nowadays considered part of persian vocabulary.

As another example look at Azeri spoken in Tehran, it is heavily mixed with persian, sometimes even its grammar has been changed, but it is not correct to judge by this accent the vocabulary or grammar of Azeri language in Iran, for a correct judgement, you must look at Tabriz or Ardabil accent,specially in villages, in poems , in heydar baba, or what Ashiqs sing.


I did not understand your point about qermez, what did you expect?

well I myself until few years ago have no doubt about origin of Qermez which I thought it was Turkic origin, now look at the  Mo'in dictionary which says:
It is from Krimi or krmih which is Sanskrit origin.

some don't accept that and say that qermez and qizil have the same origin, I honestly don't know and don't judge, thats why I said disputed.

Bozbash(boz =gray this corba is grey + bash=head) 

well I myself haven't seen  bozbash Abgusht until now , so I checked Roza cookery book(you know it,don't you), in that I can't find how it became gray, anyway you may have more knowledge about it.



Edited by Hushyar - 17-Nov-2006 at 02:17
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  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2006 at 02:14

Gok_toruk


Toman
entered persian in Ilkhanid time

Serteq
Again disputed

qeleq
yes

Sandali
wrong sorry,it is originally indian and its root is from Sandal wood an indian tree, if this word is used by mongols they  also borrowed it from Indians,(how I don't know)

Sabun
It is arabic pronounciation of Greek origin word Sapon, and it is clear it has no connection with Altaic, because Romans in two thousand years ago used soap.

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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2006 at 07:37

Old Iranic didn't have anything like 'q'. So for sure, 'Serteq' is not of Iranian origin. Even Tungusic people (being Altaic) who have got nothing to do with Iranians, use this word. Also, There doesn't exist any suffix like 'ek' in Proto Indo-European language.

Database Construction for World Language Families (Merritt Ruhlen) - also some parts available online. I couldn't find any word LIKE *sandali or
*sabun with these meanings in these databases. Could you bring the exact etymological analysis or the text you're referring to?
 
Let's say Turks have interacted with Indo-Europeans for many years. So there might be some similarities and loanwords. But 'Sandali' and 'Sabun' exist in Tungusic with close meanings.
 
I'm waiting for your response.
 
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2006 at 15:56

Iranians and turks( I donot mean Turkish people) were living together for long Time and both have used the words form the other side, Azeri Turkic almost became Persian because of the the usage of Persian words ad it grammer is also changed. similary Persian have got huge number of Turkic words

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2006 at 17:01
   

Is the name of the city Istanbul Greek ??

I remember my mother referring to it as stinpoli ?
or "tha pami stinpoli" but also "stinpoli exan pola pragmata"

other words I remember that are sometimes still used by Greeks- but perhaps forgotten.
tsikits--hammer
biyeri ---hill
batania---blanket
Hydi------lets go
dzepi-----pocket



brings back lots of memories
Gia sas kai merhaba

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  Quote Hushyar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2006 at 20:40

Originally posted by gok_torouk


Database Construction for World Language Families (Merritt Ruhlen) - also some parts available online. I couldn't find any word LIKE *sandali or
*sabun with these meanings in these databases. Could you bring the exact etymological analysis or the text you're referring to?
Let's say Turks have interacted with Indo-Europeans for many years. So there might be some similarities and loanwords. But 'Sandali' and 'Sabun' exist in Tungusic with close meanings.

Sabun is Arabic pronounciation of greek word Sapon, the earlist record of this word dated back to two thousand years ago, by romans, but many believed that this word is origianally greek.
there are many sources both in web and encyclopedias that you can refer to it.

chair was not commonly used in middle east (and Iran in perticular) except for very high ranking people ,specially as a form of royal throne.So it was made from luxiorious items like Ivory or  sandalwood or ebony which were imported.Specially Sandalwood(which in Arabic and Persian and also in
Turkish I think is pronounced Sandal) was the first choice,Thats why in  persian chair is Sandali.
Not only in middle east but even in Europe precious furniture were made from sandalwood.Exporting Sandalwood  from India to middle east and also Europian country was a major trade and from antiquity until present day has existed.
And this tree only  grows in India and southeastern Asia.



Old Iranic didn't have anything like 'q'. So for sure, 'Serteq' is not of Iranian origin. Even Tungusic people (being Altaic) who have got nothing to do with Iranians, use this word. Also, There doesn't exist any suffix like 'ek' in Proto Indo-European language.

you pointed two differen points.
1)Using this word by tungustic people.
2)existance of sound Q is a prove that this word is not Iranic.

1)If this word is used by Tungustic people in the same meaning , you are right.

2)This is not as easy as it seems,languages changes and as time goes, they loan not only words but also sounds, phrases and grammar from other languages.As an example in Avestan there is not sound "L", this
does not prove that every word with sound "L" is not Iranic.
In the case of sound Q , you are right that atleast officially before Islam this sound didn't exist in any official Iranic texts,Pahlavi, Avestan, soghdian, khwarazmian,Bactrian,...But after Islam and applying arabic
script for local names and languages, many semitic sounds were used in original Iranic words.
examples are like Qahestan in place of Kohestan, or Qazvin in place of Keshvin, or T'aaq in place of taak or Qaaleb in place of Kaalbod from greek origin Kaalbodion.
In the case of Serteq, I have seen in a persian forum a linguistic discussion about word Serteq and its origin was discussed It may be from Sartigh in the eastern persian dialect or Sartizh in kurdish, but the proof you gave will prove its original altaic root.



Database Construction for World Language Families (Merritt Ruhlen) - also some parts available online.

I am sorry but I don't trust such sources, for me its like nostartic theories, and I don't believe in Nostartic theory
or similar theories, for me they are at best still hypothetical.

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