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The Scimitar...the popular middle eastern sword?

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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Scimitar...the popular middle eastern sword?
    Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 19:35
    What was the scimitar's background? Because whenever i hear of arabs, persians, whatever riding on horseback, camel, whatever, i always thing of their weapon of choice is the scimitar.

Is it true? Or is it just hollywood true?
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 21:28
I believe scimitar is a generic term used to describe a sabre of middle eastern origin.
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  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2006 at 19:59
Is it not a Steppe Origin
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  Quote TJK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2006 at 03:25
Name probaly derived from shamshir  - persian curve sabre (XV-XVI century)
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 06:37
Actually if you go to Topkapi and see the Sowrd of Khalid or Umer, then you have very straight "European" looking sowrds.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 17:13
There actually isn't any such thing, historically, as a Scimitar.  The name is derived from the persian word for sword, shamshir. The sword often called a scimitar is a light cavalry saber, usually with a fifteen to 30 degree curve, with the edge on the convex side.  Although usually associated with the middle east, swords in that region were normally straight until after the Islamic era began.
 
 
Hussar cavalry saber
 
   
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 18:15
With this topic possibly attracting those interested in Arms and Armor I'll take this opportunity to plug the collection of the Philadelphia Museum of Art.  It is a gem right in my own back yard.
 

Highlights include a late fifteenth-century jousting armor made by the leading armorer of Augsburg for Emperor Maximilian I of Austria; as well as the earliest homogeneous armor in North America; a rare blued, etched, and gilded French Renaissance cuirass; the latest known example of a brigandine armor; two embossed elements of a horse bard for King Henry II of France; and an outstanding English broadsword believed to have belonged to Cromwell.

Many objects on display can be securely traced back to the armories and gunrooms of powerful rulers such as the Holy Roman Emperors, the kings of Spain, the prince electors of Saxony, and the Ottoman and Mamluk sultans. Illustrious provenance is one of the distinguishing characteristics of the Museums arms and armor.

The rich holdings of plate and mail armor include helmets and harnesses for men and boys, as well as horses, with examples that were used in war, various forms of tournament, and processions. Most are of German and Italian origin, as the armorers of these countries were the leading experts in Europe and worked for an international clientele. French, English, Spanish, Hungarian, and Islamic armors, however, are also featured.

"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 07:55
In another thread I had asked for help in understanding why Sword smithing was becoming popular.  Considering the effort and time needed to produce a sword [ not to mention skill and knowledge] it seemed unusual, especially for something that has no practical use in todays world. Below are examples of modern sword smithing.  The first is a Saber
type produced by a man in Massechusetts USA
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by red clay - 28-Jun-2006 at 07:56
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 08:01
These two were made by a smith in Brisbane Aus.
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2006 at 09:49
the Below picture is of two swords said to be one of the swords of Prophet Mohammed pbuh.
 
they are in Top Kapi Saray Museum in Turkey.
 
 


Edited by azimuth - 28-Jun-2006 at 09:52
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 19:16
The term refers to a curved blade, a sabre, yes. This type of sword came into widespread use in the middle east following the Turkic invasions, in earlier times most blades in this region were forged straight.
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  Quote Attila2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 17:53
Afaik the first curved swords originated in the steppes,and carried to the mid east (actually transmitted to the Persians)during the conflicts between persians and Turks
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2007 at 12:55
these are the swords of Fatih Sultan Mehmet
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2007 at 14:43
It has far greater slicing capability than a straight sword. Not good for jabbing.
Incidentally while with the curved blade even a nick could cause a wound, cuts were far less likely to kill than a stab, meaning the mortality rate was less.
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  Quote Lmprs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2007 at 15:33
Reginmund - The term refers to a curved blade, a sabre, yes. This type of sword came into widespread use in the middle east following the Turkic invasions

I don't think so. Do you have any source for that?

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2007 at 07:23
Curved swords have been used for thousands of years.
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  Quote YusakuJon3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2007 at 00:21
Judging from what I've seen so far, it may be that "Hollywood true" would be more accurate for the most part.  The curved scimitar seems mostly to be associated with the Indians, Turk and Mongols.
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  Quote Tar Szernd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2007 at 11:48

ottoman sabres: kilidj (with upper edge on the end) and samsir(without).

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