"Countries" were neither colonized nor colonizer?

Kırım

Originally posted by barish The people who were conquered by Ottomans were not second class citizens.

On the contrary, Christians were considered second class subjects in the Ottoman empire. The justice system was heavily titled towards the Muslims, and Christians could hardly ever win cases in courts against Muslims. Also Christians had to pay heavier taxes than Muslims. The Empire never encouraged equality between its subjects, instead it invented this "millet" system of seggregation. By not encouraging integration of the ordinary Christians into the structures of the Empire, the Empire chose to keep them isolated in these different millet units.

The reforms in the Empire that was to finally bring equality between the Christians and Muslims in 1876(?) achieved too little too late  for the empire was already beginning to disintegrate.

Originally posted by bg_turk On the contrary, Christians were considered second class subjects in the Ottoman empire. The justice system was heavily titled towards the Muslims, and Christians could hardly ever win cases in courts against Muslims. Also Christians had to pay heavier taxes than Muslims. The Empire never encouraged equality between its subjects, instead it invented this "millet" system of seggregation. By not encouraging integration of the ordinary Christians into the structures of the Empire, the Empire chose to keep them isolated in these different millet units.The reforms in the Empire that was to finally bring equality between the Christians and Muslims in 1876(?) achieved too little too late� for the empire was already beginning to disintegrate.

Those are just formalities.

In Istanbul most rich merchants, landowners were either Rum or Jew, while Turks were just farmers or soldiers.

That's definitely different from the British Empire, right?

Plus only distinction was made through religion.

If the conquered person was a muslim, he was considered as an ordinary Ottoman citizen.
    

Edited by barish - 23-Jun-2006 at 03:04

Originally posted by Mortaza I agree with bg, Christians were considered second class subjects in the Ottoman empire.

Officially? Yes. Unofficially? I don't think so.

Originally posted by gcle2003 Not so different from the situation in India, where the rich landowners and merchants�were�mostly Hindus/Muslims/Sikhs/Parsees. Most of the army was also not British, no?

I see, and how about London?

That would be a more appropriate comparison.
    

No, you misunderstood.

Istanbul was the capital of Ottoman Empire. Trade was under the control of the "collonized" people.

And I ask; were there any foreign people who had any type of power in the capital city of British Empire?


    

Edited by barish - 23-Jun-2006 at 20:45

Originally posted by gcle2003 But the people who you are pointing out had economic power in Istanbul were not foreign. They were native.

Not all of them.

Originally posted by gcle2003 How many foreign-origin powerful people in Istanbul compare with those?

Countless. There were generals, bureaucrats, merchants, religious leaders...

Racially, even emperors were not Turkic.
    

Originally posted by gcle2003 Where did they come from?

From the conquered provinces of the empire.

Some of them may have been natives of Istanbul as you said though.

Originally posted by gcle2003 That's new to me, but I wouldn't claim to know. I always assumed the Ottoman Emperors were Ottomans. Why did they call themselves Ottomans? Or didn't they - is it just what foreigners called them?

"Ottoman" comes from Osman, the founder of the empire.

It was the name of the ruling family, which became a religious identity later on.

Originally posted by gcle2003 How much of, say, Edward VII's heritage do you think was English or British?

I am not sure. He may not be pure blood English.

But when compared to Ottoman rulers, I don't think he is that "mixed".
    

Well, that may be so, but this situation is rather irrelevant, isn't it?

I mean since Britain didn't conquer his homeland, it doesn't matter if he is of German origin or something like that.

Wasn't Bahrein like a colony of Iran? and isn't Abu musa still a colony?