They have the right to be Turkish

Originally posted by Spartakus I've already stated that the minority was not treated well,for many reasons:History,State policies,Turkish agressiveness.I am not going to hide anything.But,there is no Turkish minority.

In short you are saying the Turks were not treated well because they deserved it...

You still havent expressed any opposition to the banning of peaceful associations, quite the opposite you have expressed your support because  in your opinion they serve the interests of another country.

If we cant even agree on such basic questions as the respect of everybody's right of association within our countries, what is the hope to agree on other more difficult questions...


Edited by bg_turk - 11-Jun-2006 at 14:23

Originally posted by Spartakus I am opposed to any mistreatment of Hellen citizens,minority people and the rest Hellen citizens,by the Hellenic State,but i am also against any kind of action by people who want to harm the integrity and prosperity of a democratical country like Hellas.

You still haven't opposed the banning of these organizations.

Does being a Turk in Greece and seeking to establish a Turkish Women's Union "harm the integrity and prosperity of a democratical country like Hellas"? Yes or no?

Do you support the banning of Turkish women's and teacher's organizations in Greece? Yes or no?

For me these are human right issues that Greece is supposed to respect as part of her obligations as an EU member state, and not a question of bilateral agreements with Turkey. We are talking about the well being of your own citizens, which cannot be held hostage to inability to reach bilateral agreements with another country which is not yet even in the EU.
 

If the banning of these organizations is against the Hellenic Law and Constitution,then of course i am opposed to them.But if this banning was made due to the dark purposes of certain Turks and in order to protect the Law ,the State  and Democracy from a real danger,then i am in favour of it.

Originally posted by Spartakus But if this banning was made due to the dark purposes of certain Turks and in order to protect the Law ,the State  and Democracy from a real danger,then i am in favour of it.

How does a woman's organization pose a danger to the state, Spartakus?

Originally posted by Spartakus A woman's organization can actually be the perfect "vitrine",because it is one of the least suspected.

Spartakus, please submit, and quit this obstinacy with finding excuses which look progessively dumber!

Originally posted by Spartakus For you maybe it seems dumb,but not for the secret services around the globe.

Quit it now, will you?

Originally posted by bg_turk I did not ignore your post. I simply felt no need to respond because I largely agreed with its content. The ongoing violations of what remains of the once a hundred thousand strong Greek minority in Istanbul are undisputable, and well documented by various human rights organizations including the one that you quoted in your post. This thread cannot "prove" that there are violations, this has been proven by human rights organizations which you referred to your in your post as well.  There have been improvements in recent years, but the fact remains that Turkish identity in Greece is still denied.

I must apologise as this was one of the poorest times of my understanding and idiosyncracy.

I am actually concerned because I see that the conversation has not progressed by even an inch.
Unfortunately, my pilaf is ready and I regret that I have to leave you but I am really hungry.

Ok, lets get some things straight:
1. Bg I think you are smart enough to realise my sarcasm and smarter enough to pretend that you didn't realise my sarcasm.
2. Menippos made a very good post, which puts things in their right dimension and it is up to date. If you largely agree with him BG then you should stop exaggerating about the human rights violation in W.Thrace.
3. If a Greek citizen feels that he is a Turk then he has every right to say that he is a Turk and this right is totally respected by me and by the Greek State.
4. Whether they can call an organization "Turkish" or not is more of a political and legal issue, than a human rights issue. Call me a nationalist if you want for my last statement, but I believe that it is more important for Human Rights to be respected in reality and not on paper. For example it is more imrortant to have 200+ minotiry schools with 400+ Muslim teachers (reality), than have a Teachers Union and call it Turkish (paper).
5. Yes, there are still problems with the Muslim Minority and I wish there were no Human Right violations. However, the situation is improving continuously and I believe (and hope that) this trend will continue.
6. This time I was being serious.

P.S.: Menippos I see that you are really needed in this forum. Please stay.

Originally posted by Spartakus A woman's organization can actually be the perfect "vitrine",because it is one of the least suspected.

Well, that's called paranoia.
    

Originally posted by Neoptolemos There are people of Turkish origin in Western Thrace and nobody denies that Period They have the right to call themselves Turkish Period Their Human Rights should be respected Period

Fine, I do not know why you needed to say that you were "sarcastic" then.

Can you also state your position on the ban of Turkish Women's Union in Rodopi. Do you approve of it like Spartakus who thinks it is beneficial for the state security, or do you believe it is part of the human right violations that you have stated above are unacceptable? From your last post it seemed like you were approving it.