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Ann Coulter criticized for comments on 9/11 widows |
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Tobodai 
Tsar 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Antarctica Online Status: Offline Posts: 4310 |
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Ann Coulter criticized for comments on 9/11 widowsPosted: 10-Jun-2006 at 17:16 |
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Though I hate Ann Coulter's political opinions on basically everything Im going to take the unpopular and suprising chance to defend her just this once. Why? Cause I happen to agree with her ...sort of.
First of all, no matter now nutso someone is, it takes balls to say something like that in public. Sure shes just an attention whore, but in this nation of punditocracy who isnt? And her point is valid in this one instance...a random event happened to people because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and because of this we elevate them to the status of saints. Sure as usual Coulter is taking a position so extreme its farcical, but the overal theme that we should be able to criticize victims of tragedy is completely right on.
However to imply that they enjoyed their husbands deaths and that they should shut up and take the money is where Coulter deserves to be torturted and executed. But lets not let that affect our judgement that we should be able to mock people society holds up for nop apparent reason.
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
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Akolouthos
Sultan 
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2091 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 17:30 |
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I believe our political leanings probably differ in almost every respect. However, I believe that I agree with everything you just said (at least the fundamental assertions; i could never condone the violence). A good day for rarities, is it not?
 -Akolouthos Edited by Akolouthos - 10-Jun-2006 at 17:31 |
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Illuminati
General 
Joined: 08-Dec-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 949 |
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Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 17:52 |
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I REALLY want to read her new book..."Godless: The Church of Liberalism"
 She's also notorious for having faulty information in her books. i remember reading an Al Franken book where he went thru and with the use of credible evidence, disproved alot of the information and facts that she was claiming. Even though, i'm not a liberal, from her perspective, I'm probabaly a yellow-bellied communist I'm curious as to what she has to say in her new book |
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Zagros
Emperor 
Suspended Joined: 11-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8792 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 17:52 |
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She is just sayng what every neo-con is thinking. |
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Akolouthos
Sultan
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2091 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 18:05 |
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Not at all. He belongs in the same category. By the way, when the guy uses the word "hate" in reference to Republicans, and later has to come back and qualify it by saying that he wasn't really referring to Republicans, but rather to what they stand for, how can you possibly qualify the first statement as anything other than hate speech?
Regarding bias, I believe that we all possess our own form/forms of it to varying degrees. I did not include Falwell to "try to make my statement appear fair;" I included him because he is an example of exactly the hateful attitude we do not need. As I said, the list could go on and on. If making "outrageously stupid and offensive statements" is requisite for admission to the increasingly inclusive ategory of those who endorse hate speech then yes, Dean deserves to be on it.
And as for fairness, if you can't recognize Dean, who explicitly stated, "I hate Republicans and everything they stand for," as being in the same hate-speech category as Coulter, I fear I am not the one who needs to defend his objectivity. Overcoming our biases requires examining those with whom we tend to agree as well as those with whom we strongly disagree.
-Akolouthos Edited by Akolouthos - 10-Jun-2006 at 18:16 |
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Illuminati
General
Joined: 08-Dec-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 949 |
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Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 18:23 |
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i took a brief look at her website. She seems to be one of the only pundits who seems to take pride in not being opposed to Joseph McCarthy
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Akolouthos
Sultan
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2091 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 18:27 |
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-Akolouthos Edited by Akolouthos - 10-Jun-2006 at 18:28 |
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pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 18:36 |
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SEE! Told ya!
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ArmenianSurvival
Chieftain 
Joined: 11-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1460 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 22:20 |
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Its funny, she's saying how no one is able to critisize the
widows, while she's been appearing on show after show doing just
that...critisizing them. She's even made a living critisizing them
(basically it disproves her own point). I think we should be able to
critisize anyone
as long as our claims make sense (so I guess I agree with her on that).
On a show the host told her "I don't think they've ever told you that you can't respond" (referring to the widows). She immediately said, "Look I think you're getting testy with me!". That about sums up her whole argument. She said nastier things about the widows...like about how we don't even know if their husbands weren't really thinking about divorcing them, and how their shelf-life is shorter so they should probably appear in Playboy while they still can. As if that somehow validates what she's trying to say... If I wanted sh*t from Ann Coulter, I'd squeeze her head instead of wasting my time reading it in her books. |
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Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։ |
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Emperor Barbarossa
Caliph 
Joined: 15-Jul-2005 Location: Pittsburgh, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 2888 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 22:30 |
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I agree that the 9/11 widows are elevated to a not-deserved status. Still, as you said, what she has written is just horrible in itself. |
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Emperor Barbarossa
Caliph
Joined: 15-Jul-2005 Location: Pittsburgh, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 2888 |
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Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 22:33 |
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I have to agree with flyingzone on this one. Dean was just saying that he does not like what the Republican party stands for. What is so wrong about that? He did not say "I want to blow up every Republican" or "We should kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity" or some ridiculously hateful phrase. |
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Akolouthos
Sultan
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2091 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 22:39 |
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No, he just said he hated them. Once again, the use of the word "hate" is not something I will condone, no matter who says it, in what context it was said, or to whom it applies. I think that alone classifies it as hate speech. Thus, I believe him to be as irresponsible and polarizing as Coulter and vice versa.
-Akolouthos
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Emperor Barbarossa
Caliph
Joined: 15-Jul-2005 Location: Pittsburgh, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 2888 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 22:47 |
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Please, "hate" is used as a synonym to "dislike". Speech with the word "hate" in it is not always defined as hate speech. I know, it sounds wierd, but if I would say "I hate him", that is not hate speech. If I would say "I want to blow him up with a bazooka" that is hate speech. "Hate speech is a controversial
term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or
prejudicial action against a group of people based on their race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability"
- Wikipedia As I have said, hate speech really has nothing to do with using the word hate, but actually showing violence or prejudice. |
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Akolouthos
Sultan
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2091 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 22:54 |
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I agree, and perhaps I have been led away from my initial point. I would say that there is virtually no difference (except, perhaps as a matter of infintesimal degree one way or the other) between Howard Dean's "I hate Republicans and everything they stand for," speech and Ann Coulter's attack on a group of grieving widows. Both demonstrate prejudice. If one is hate speech, the other is as well, and vice-versa. I choose to condemn both of them, as well as all of the other vitriol that our politicians are so fond of throwing at each other. -Akolouthos Edited by Akolouthos - 10-Jun-2006 at 22:55 |
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Emperor Barbarossa
Caliph
Joined: 15-Jul-2005 Location: Pittsburgh, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 2888 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 22:57 |
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I still see a difference. Howard Dean was saying that he does not like what the Republicans stand for, while Ann Coulter was viciously attacking a group of widows. Let's not forget here, Ann Coulter is some crazy extremist author, while Howard Dean is a politician.
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red clay
Administrator 
Tomato Master Emeritus Joined: 14-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10226 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 23:01 |
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Howard Dean in the same category? As irresponsible and polarizing as coulter? A few Favs from Miz Coulter-
On academics: In addition to racist and Nazi, how about adding traitor to the list of things that professors cant be? And yes, I realize I just proposed firing the entire Harvard faculty. On McCarthyism: Liberals like to scream and howl about McCarthyism, I say lets give them some.its time for a new McCarthyism. On President Clinton: "Well, he was a very good rapist. I think that should not be forgotten." On Voting: It would be a much better country if women did not vote. On the Press: My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building. On the Environment: God says, Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. Its yours. On Campus Progressives: When contemplating college liberals, you really regret once again that John Walker is not getting the death penalty. We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors. This woman is diametrically opposed to everything I believe in, and stands for almost everything that is polarizing and dividing the US today. She is an extremist of the worst order!
Edited by red clay - 10-Jun-2006 at 23:06 |
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown. |
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Akolouthos
Sultan
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2091 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 23:03 |
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A crazy extremist politician by some people's standards (I tend not to hold this view myself, though I disagree with him on a whole host of issues). By the way, I completely agree with you regarding Coulter; I have never been fond of her particular style myself.
If he meant he hated what they stand for, he should have said that initially instead of clarifying his remarks when they drew criticism. Can you at least acknowledge that it was terribly irresponsible? If we are to try to dispose of bitter polemics in public dialogue, we have to criticize all of them, and not just those with which we disagree.
-Akolouthos
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Akolouthos
Sultan
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2091 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 23:06 |
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Sorry red clay, I haven't the time to go searching for all of the ridiculous things said by any individual politician (well I suppose there might be several responsible ones). I believe you are aware that we could fill a separate thread of many pages going back and forth, which would be as fruitless as it would be wasteful.
-Akolouthos
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Emperor Barbarossa
Caliph
Joined: 15-Jul-2005 Location: Pittsburgh, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 2888 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 23:08 |
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What Dean meant to say was not terribly wrong, but the way he said it was completely irresponsible. He could have said it in a way better way. I do not consider him an extremist(some of the things he says are spot on). However, he has had one bad remark, compared to the thousands of Ann Coulter. Not exactly the same category.
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Akolouthos
Sultan
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2091 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10-Jun-2006 at 23:16 |
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That is, I feel, a bit closer to how I would analyze the situation. I think the key difference is the degree to which they differ; I tend to view it as a non-issue. I don't think he is an extremist either, and I agree that Coulter is. The point I was making with my initial post was that they fit into the same category when it comes to some of the remarks they made. I feel some of the things both Coulter and Dean say are spot on, while a good deal of them are not. Still, the issue is not whether or not they are correct, the issue is their phrasing.
-Akolouthos
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