Are Christians more tolerant than Muslims

Since i live in Germany i compare europeans with Middle eastern societies. There are many ethic values in both societies which differs in many points. If we look at the history of about 20 years until now, we see a certain intolerance among the Islamic world. Many of you have read or heared of Dun Brown's book "The Da Vinci Code" and the sacrilege, he claims Maria Magdalena to be the holy grail or Jesus have had a doughter. But have anyone of you ever heared a Christ sentenses Dun Brown to death? or have you ever heared some Christ try to cut the throat of the publishers of this book?

Edited by Maziar - 04-Jun-2006 at 23:21

Actually, I do want to know if there have been any Christian groups which have committed murder or attacks as a result of how their religion has been portrayed recently. Perhaps it is out there, though I have not heard of it recently to be honest.

One Christian group I know of which is fanatical is Westboro Baptist Church. This is a small splinter church which is looked down on by conventional churches and is radically different to your typical Christian church. They basically run hate campaigns of verbal abuse against homosexuals, Jews, Catholics and a range of other groups. Their methods are particularly distasteful, including picketing the funerals of the deceased and screaming abuse at family members. Their membership is less than 200 and nearly half of those are comprised of family members from the church's founder, Fred Phelps Senior.

For more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_baptist


Edited by Constantine XI - 05-Jun-2006 at 03:39

Constantine, they're groups in the USA that shoot doctors attached to abortion clinics. Futher to this thread, what would one define as a christain group? just pure religoius organisations, or paramilitary/groups that have christain members? Im thinking balkans and africa.

@ machine, christainity fundamentally has not changed, ithough ts members within it and the soceity around it have.

@Giannis, Franco and his henchmen in Spain fit that bill too....


Edited by Leonidas - 05-Jun-2006 at 04:36

Originally posted by Constantine XI Actually, I do want to know if there have been any Christian groups which have committed murder or attacks as a result of how their religion has been portrayed recently. Perhaps it is out there, though I have not heard of it recently to be honest. One Christian group I know of which is fanatical is Westboro Baptist Church. This is a small splinter church which is looked down on by conventional churches and is radically different to your typical Christian church. They basically run hate campaigns of verbal abuse against homosexuals, Jews, Catholics and a range of other groups. Their methods are particularly distasteful, including picketing the funerals of the deceased and screaming abuse at family members. Their membership is less than 200 and nearly half of those are comprised of family members from the church's founder, Fred Phelps Senior. For more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_baptist

Yes, however the Westboro church group aren't violent. But they are, nonetheless whackos. They use the law as their weapon. Fred Phelps is actually a pretty intelligent lawyer.

Actually, I do want to know if there have been any Christian groups which have committed murder or attacks as a result of how their religion has been portrayed recently. Perhaps it is out there, though I have not heard of it recently to be honest.

However, there are some groups that don't make the news. There are splinter groups of Mormons in Utah and the northern parts of Arizona. They live in compounds with their extended families (like the Branch Davidians). The men have numerous wives, and some have over 30 children. They are extremely cut off from society. It is widely known that there is mass child abuse/spousal abuse that occurs within these isolated compounds.

the leader of one of these groups, who is a known polygamist is currently on the FBI's ten-msot wanted list for abuse of everykind (including child sexual abuse). The leaders of these groups have killed family members in the past who rebel and try to leave.

In my mind, they are terrorists but they are extremely isolationist, whereas Islamic terrorist groups are more international these days, thus these mormon groups never make the news.

Every once in a while, a woman will come out of one of these compounds and get on the local news here. Their stories are shocking. One of these "escapees" was on FoxNews's "O'Reilly Factor" the other day. The governments of Arizona and Utah are ignoring the problem.


Edited by Illuminati - 05-Jun-2006 at 04:59

" I suppose for the sake of this thread it may be necessary to distinguish violence which is motivated by religion and violence which uses religion as a convenient way of legitimising itself. Sometimes it is almost impossible to distinguish between the two."

Violence which uses religion:
reaction to danish cartoon;
groups in the USA that shoot doctors attached to abortion clinics.

Violence which is motivated by religion:
suicidal bombers.

 -When it comes to suicide bombers many of them are either unbelieving or moderate muslims. Many come from abroad(At least three arabs have emigrated from Norway and become suicide bombers) and are never very devout but they wish to do something for their fellow countrymen. The muslim fanatics then choose them as they're not killing devout muslims(Who can be more useful alive).

 -The difference between Muslim and Christian fanatics is that the former see the West in it's entirity as unholy and can be very general in their attacks(9/11, Madrid, London) while the latter have more specific targets(Abortion doctors/clinics, for instance).

 -A fanatic is a fanatic.

entirely a matter of subjective opinion...as a case might be made for and or against as both have splinter fundamentalist groups and both have neo- fundamentalist groups and both have more moderate adherants...

Amen to that trooper.

Originally posted by Maziar We all know what happened in the Danish cartoon affair. I don't want here to disscusse if the cartoons were an insult for Islam or not, but also i want to disscusse why Christians showed setteled characters as they protested against Dun Browns book.   Now if you  understand my point, what is the difference between christian and islamic world? (of today offcourse). Your opinions and thoughts.

Well Maziar - it isnt the same Christians who printed the Cartoons as those protesting against Dan Browns book.

Printing the cartoons was a protest in itself, against self-censorship.
The background for printing them was not an unprovoked act to demonstrate "Freedom of Speech" - there was a good reason.
The reason was, that a publisher wanted to make a book about Islam and muslims to provide a better understanding of our muslim minorities here in Denmark. The publisher couldnt find anyone who "dared" to illustrate such a book. (we all know numerous examples of what can happen) 
The newspaper saw this as an attack on freedom of speech, and as a protest to this, decided to print the cartoons in the, for newspapers,  usual satirical manner.

The difference between Muslim and Christian world?
I think the clerics makes all the difference. Neither of the religions are violent but people makes them violent.
Some clerics of Islam are very agressive, non-tolerant and will fight any influence and acceptance of anything "western". They are using any excuse to inflame hatred in an attempt to maintain their power over the people.

Ie. the riots against the Danish and other embassys, I doubt they were spontainious. They were organised by the clerics who was (mis)informed by the delegation of Danish Imams who made their tour solely to stir up trouble and intimidate. Once again it was demonstrated how these clerics can take advantage of less educated people and exploit them to benefit their own agenda.

I cant help to think - these people in the street - do they actually know the deeper context for what and why they riot?
Are such riots actually just an excuse and "safe way" to let out anger and steam from other more local frustrations?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_group 

Edited by xi_tujue - 05-Jun-2006 at 13:43