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Italian history

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  Quote naav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Italian history
    Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 11:05
Hi everyone. Smile

Just wondered if anyone had any ideas about the following which I've come across whilst reading about European history.  I've tried various sources but I'm kinda lost. Confused

1. I read that in the 1640s (thirty years war?), French troops drove the Spanish out of Italy.

I thought the French from after Charles Anjou were already in Italy....also how, when and where did the Spanish get in?

2. After the War of the Spanish Succession (1713), the Austrian Habsburgs are given Spain's territories in Milan, Naples and Sicily

If the French drove out the Spanish out in the 1640s (see 1) then how how can the Austrian Habsburgs take Spanish territory in Italy?

Thank you very much, Hope someone can shed some light . Smile


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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 14:44
1. Wait a sec. First see the answers gave to your question on the medieval subforum then be very careful handling the term "French". 14th c. and 17c. France are two different countries.
Basically the Anjou family was drawn out from Italy after King Ren death (late 15th), but as the French king Charles VIII they came back in 1494. Finally the defeat of St Quentin and the starting point of the Religion Wars in France (1562-1598) draged France out of Italy. In the 1640, while the Austrian Habsburgs were getting more important and powerfull than their Spanish cousins, France grow as the first power in Europe. Cardinal de Richelieu decided to face the Spaniards and their allies were ever. Hence, on the seas, in Belgium/Burgondy, in the Pyrenees and in Italy started important fight that were to end in 1653 by the Peace of the Pyrenees and a major french victory. Also the French left their last Italian estates to the duke of Piedmont-Savoie
    

Edited by Maharbbal - 02-Jun-2006 at 22:00
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 22:05
2. The Spaniards didn't lost Milan to the Austrian but handed it back. Besides the Austrian never took Naples but forced the Spaniards to give them their "independance" that is they were separated from the Spanish crown and ruled by the second son of the Spanish king.
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  Quote naav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 03:18
Thank you very much - really kind of you. Smile

I've been trying to do some more research on this.

It seems that by the 1530s the Spanish/Austrian Habsburgs were in control of Italy.  In the 1640s I read that Richelieu of France tried again to take Italy for France.

I understand that the War of Spanish Succession (1710s) lead to the Austrian Habsburgs gaining control of Italy. During that war the Austrian, Prince Eugene of Savoy drove the French out of Italy (1706).

(a) What happened in Italy between the Thirty Years War and the end of the War of Spanish Succession?...Did the French take control of Italy in the 1640s and drive the Spanish out?

(b) What parts of Italy were in control of France before 1706?

Thank you very much. Tongue


Edited by naav - 03-Jun-2006 at 03:52
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 12:06
One thing for sure, Italy wasn't as important in the 17th c. as in the 16th c. So no real use to struggle for it. France may have kept some positions until the late 17th c. in the NW (Monferrat for instance) and launch a few expedition (against Genoa in the 1680's). Nonetheless, except a few expeditions, France never really tried to get back in Italy after the 1560's.

Italy in the late 17th? Well, I don't know really not much I guess.

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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 13:24
As a result of the Italian Wars, Spain had effective hegemony over the Italian peninsula after the mid 16th century.  Naples and Milan,* the two more strategic locations were directly controlled, and the approaches from France (Savoy and Mantua), were (usually) pro Habsburg.  Genoa also was pro Habsburg and a doorway to central Europe from the Med.

*(Naples was a strong position in the Mediterranean against the Turks; Milan controlled the mountain passes that began the Spanish Road to Luxembourg.)

After the 1560s, France was consumed by religious conflict until 1629, and had not the strength to contest Spanish Habsburg power in Italy.  Richelieu reintroduced France into Italian politics, but mostly to interdict the Spanish communications with the Netherlands.  Spain shot itself in the head in the War of Mantuan Succession 1629-32, and the course of the Thirty Years War pretty much killed the need for the Spanish Road.  After that, Italy actually was a liability for Spain.  The Turks were weaker and no threat at sea, and Austrain Habsburg policy had little to do with their Spanish relations.  No need for a German policy in Madrid.

wrote more than I thought.  whew


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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 20:08
Lombarda (Miln) was considerated by the spanish the most strategical place of the entire continent, at least until 1640. Not only because the richness of the city or the weapons factories, but like say Pikeshot, because was a center of communications, from here can be launched campaigns against the french, helped to Austria against the ottomans and defend southern Germany from the protestants and control the naval states of Italy.
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  Quote naav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 04:11
Thank you everyone - really kind!  Smile
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