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Middle East Before Arabization
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Middle East Before Arabization
    Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 00:26
Originally posted by Maziar

@Azimuth, as an chines you will be able to see the difference between other chines and japanes people. Like me in germany if i see someone who don't looks German i could spot if he/she is Iranian or not. But the Germans can't differ between an Arab and an Iranian or a Turk.
 
Well you look like an Arab to me, yet your Iranian.
 
 
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Posts: 1155 		  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 16:58
I know Machine, but me as Iranian can spot the characteristic face of an Iranian.
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Posts: 106 		  Quote shayan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 06:45

The only arabs i can pick out are Khaliji (dark skin)

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Posts: 1013 		  Quote Cent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 07:11

"I just like to point out, that Kurds are branch of Iranic people. They are not Turks, or Arabs, neither are they a separate group of their own. They are Iranians."

I'm not Iranian. I'm Kurdish. We ARE a separate group.
 
I take this as an insult. Kurds are KURDS.
 
 
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Posts: 106 		  Quote shayan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2006 at 05:58
no your not your iranian deal with it :S make sure you get over your wierd feelings of being different cuz your just as iranian as a persian or a azeri.
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Posts: 1013 		  Quote Cent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2006 at 07:13

Still, Kurds are a separate group.

Yeah, shayan, use your "we are all iranian"-method on me, but still I won't change. I don't see myself as an Iranian. Never had, never will.
 
 
 
 
 
 
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jul-2006 at 09:48
no your not your iranian deal with it :S make sure you get over your wierd feelings of being different cuz your just as iranian as a persian or a azeri.

As an Azeri Turk Unless you mean a citizen of Iran and belonging to the "country" Iran but if your referring to Azeri Turks as a people being Iranian your mistaken.
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Posts: 269 		  Quote Killabee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2006 at 15:27
Iraq (Khvarvaran) used to be part of Persian empire for thousand years. I think many modern day Iraqi is actually arabized persian rather than descendant of Arabs from Arabian Pennisular.
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Posts: 269 		  Quote Killabee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jul-2006 at 15:34
Originally posted by azimuth

Arabs themselvs dont look similar, there are dark color ones and there are lighter ones,
 
Middle eastern still dont look like the same, most of the time i can tell who is an egyptian and who is lebanese and who is algerian ..etc. not from the clothes but also from the look.
 
i guess people who are not used to live with different races would find a problem distinguishing between people.
 
for example how would you tell the difference between a chinese and a japanese or korean or vitnamese or thai?
 
Middle east isnt different.
 
 
 
Can you explain what is physical difference between lebanese, algerian and egyptian? One thing I notice is that Saudi Arabian , Yemenis, UAE, Iraqi tend to have darker skin in general than the other arab countries. Maybe it is due to sun exposure since most of those countries are covered by desert and they are situated closer to the equator.  The Lebanese in turn seem to look closer to the Greek and Turk with lighter skin complexion . Maybe it is because Lebanese are mostly Phoenician descent .


Edited by Killabee - 26-Jul-2006 at 15:46
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Posts: 487 		  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jul-2006 at 16:35

This is from another post if you have interest in genetics just follow the links

More recent migration did not really change the genetic make up of people in the Middle East that much. Recent DNA studies show that percentage wise people in Iran, Turkey, and Lebanon are actually closer to each other based on DNA than Turks are to the actual Turks from central Asia, or Lebanese are the to Arabs of peninsula or North Africa, or Iranians are to the people of Tajikistan. Languages has been used to identify ethnicities in the Middle East as compromise not because they pointed to some kind of fact

A genetic testing has revealed that as much as 30% of Turks have varying degrees of Central Asian ancestry.[25] Although, result of another genetic testing suggests that the actual Centeral Asian ancestry could be less than 9%[26]. The genetic constitution of the Turks who are living in Turkey today is much closer to their nearest geographic neighbors like Iranians and Lebanese, although none is a Turkic-language population, than to the Turkic-speaking populations of Central Asia [27][28].
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 12:08
Originally posted by Killabee

 
 
Can you explain what is physical difference between Lebanese, Algerian and Egyptian? One thing I notice is that Saudi Arabian , Yemenis, UAE, Iraqi tend to have darker skin in general than the other Arab countries. Maybe it is due to sun exposure since most of those countries are covered by desert and they are situated closer to the equator.  The Lebanese in turn seem to look closer to the Greek and Turk with lighter skin complexion . Maybe it is because Lebanese are mostly Phoenician descent .
 
well i cant tell all the time, but sometimes i can tell without hearing the accent or when they are wearing normal none traditional clothes due to experience
 
Lebanese are lighter in skin hair and eyes colors.
 
north African in general has not-straight hair, even if they are white their hair is curly when it gets long.
 
Algerians and Moroccans have similar forehead shape
 
Egyptians don't have much body hair specially in their arms.
 
------
 
of course there are many people who don't fit these descriptions and they are from that region,
 
 
 
 
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 22:29

In addition to variations of Arabs (All racially Caucasoids),  two nations on the Arabian Penninsula have disticnt minorities from Pre Islamic times.  Yemen has a small minority of Australoids (Veddoids) and Oman has a people who speak a Pre Arabic / Pre Islamic language.

The Australoids were among the first people to leave Africa and include small groups in India, Sri Lanka and the Australian Abirigones.   In Yemen, Australoids are not treated well by the dominant Arab Caucasoids who view their facial features as "primitive".   To my knowledge, the people in Oman are Caucasoids, but still speak a pre Arabic langauge.
 


Edited by Cryptic - 20-Aug-2006 at 22:35
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Egyptians dont regard themselves as Arabs because we had no dealings with them until the Arab League...It is purely due to our langauge that we are associated with Arabs...
 
As for how we look, it depends on where in Egypt you are from. Alexandrians are whiter than other Egyptians, often with green, hazel or blue eyes.
 
Cairenes and those living along the Nile until Mid-Egypt are olive skinned with squarish facial features. Eye colour can range between hazel and very dark brown. As Herodotus described us with "hair like wool"which is true...
 
Southern Egyptians living between Aswan and the Sudanese Border with Egypt are of light structure, dark skinned with dark brown eyes. Some may have green/hazel...
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Egyptians dont regard themselves as Arabs because we had no dealings with them until the Arab League...It is purely due to our langauge that we are associated with Arabs...

I think there are Arab arabs, as in people from the arabian peninsular and greater arabs, as in people who speak arabic. Egyptians are often called and refer to themselves as arabs. They naturally mean greater arabs.
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Posts: 96 		  Quote The Gypo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 03:44
I think any Egyptian who refers to themselves as an arab has lost their identity...This is in no way derrogatory against those who consider themselves Arabs...
 
I mean, its almost like making an american say they were british...This loss of identity has caused the downfall of many empires where citizens could no longer come together as one force...
 
But yes Omar, you are right...There are true Arabs and there are those who only really speak the language. It is most evident from Egyptian culture that there are very little similarities with lets say Saudi Arabian culture...
 
I see this loss of identity most at school where Iranians, Afghans and Lebanese have joined together as a group of Arabs...I as an Egyptian refused to join this group not only because they were oblivious to the fact that they have little in common with each other but also due to this 'melting-pot' concept where all of them eventually became the same...Each forgot his/her history, culture and ethnice uniqueness.


Edited by The Gypo - 21-Aug-2006 at 03:48
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I see this loss of identity most at school where Iranians, Afghans and Lebanese have joined together as a group of Arabs...I as an Egyptian refused to join this group not only because they were oblivious to the fact that they have little in common with each other but also due to this 'melting-pot' concept where all of them eventually became the same...Each forgot his/her history, culture and ethnice uniqueness.

lol, they are being Australianised. I know exactly what you mean, I am a quarter arab (as in Arab arab) but its been 100 years since my family left the Hijaz and I usually refer to myself as Pakistani. Thats not exactly right either but, since only my father grew up in pakistan, and my mothers australian.
So I don't have a cultural identity to loose and probably would attach to the Irani-Afghan-Leb group.

Out of interest, where are you? I'm in Canberra.
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Posts: 161 		  Quote Nestorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 09:49
There is no evidence in history of large influxes of Arabs into Egypt to make the region dominant Arab is there??
 
As far as I'm concerned, Egypt has a strong Arab cultural legacy as opposed to a strong Arab ethnic constitution.
 
Today's Egyptians are mainly indigenous Egyptians who converted to Islam, therefore, Egyptians of today are indigenous and not some group transplanted from the Arabian peninsular. Remember, the early Arab armies were very small compared to the population of Egypt, I doubt they would have overwhelmed the indigenous population genetically. Even over centuries, there is no evidence of a large Arab influx into the region but rather influxes of other peoples other than Arabs!!
 
As much as it be a testament to Arab virility, lets not fool ourselves here. Egyptians are Egyptians...and indigenous for the main part.
 
 


Edited by Nestorian - 21-Aug-2006 at 09:51
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 10:44
Originally posted by The Gypo

I think any Egyptian who refers to themselves as an arab has lost their identity...This is in no way derrogatory against those who consider themselves Arabs...


I always thought Egyptians considered themselves Arabs, you look very Arabic Gypo.
 
I mean, its almost like making an american say they were british...This loss of identity has caused the downfall of many empires where citizens could no longer come together as one force...


You dont call yourself an Aussie then do you.
 
I see this loss of identity most at school where Iranians, Afghans and Lebanese have joined together as a group of Arabs...I as an Egyptian refused to join this group not only because they were oblivious to the fact that they have little in common with each other but also due to this 'melting-pot' concept where all of them eventually became the same...Each forgot his/her history, culture and ethnice uniqueness


Interesting, you refuse to join the Arabs yet the Persians do, yet you look really Arabic to me (sorry). Something tells me that this Arabic/Islam grouping is more about fighting than sharing cultural beliefs.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 10:53
Originally posted by OZZY



Interesting, you refuse to join the Arabs yet the Persians do, yet you look really Arabic to me (sorry). Something tells me that this Arabic/Islam grouping is more about fighting than sharing cultural beliefs.


 
 
LOL
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
 
Hmmm... so what was the guy who started the topic trying to ask?????
 
 
I'm lost
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 11:06
its not actually a laughing matter 1001nights. Many Australian schools are going that way, students are ethnically an racially segregating or "grouping" themselves.

Of course its always been that way. But i guess the more diverse we get the bigger these groupings become an then vice versa, the other kids group together with their brethren.....



Edited by OZZY - 21-Aug-2006 at 11:13
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