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Communism

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Slickmeister View Drop Down
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  Quote Slickmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Communism
    Posted: 21-Nov-2004 at 13:16

You know what I mean. I said can.

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Kubrat View Drop Down
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  Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2004 at 21:17
I thought you meant that they are synonyms... 
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  Quote dark_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 20:26
 To sum up: Communsim is like spandex, looked good on paper,b ut real people started using it and things got really ugly.
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  Quote Scytho-Sarmatian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2004 at 05:23
To me, it doesn't even look good on paper.  The only place it looks good is in the trash bin of history.
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  Quote dark_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2004 at 16:53
 The idea of universal tolerance and everyone working and getting as much as they want sounds bad on paper?
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2004 at 17:35
I'd like to conduct a poll in regards to who here in this thread has actually read the communist manifesto. Many people judge communism based on the Soviet Model which is not communism as Marx described it. I encourage anyone ignorant on communism to actually read the manifesto and I will confidently assume that you will have a completely different opinion on its principles. 
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  Quote sephodwyrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2004 at 18:16

A specter is haunting AE, the specter of sephodwyrm. All the Powers of old AE have entered a holy alliance to exorcise this specter: Cyrus and Janus, Cornelia and Dawn, crazy Asian history section and Turkish elite Yeni Ceries...

Where is the party in opposition that has not been decried as sephodwyrmic by its opponents in power? Where the Opposition that has not hurled back the branding reproach of Sephodwyrm, against the more advanced opposition parties, as well as against its reactionary adversaries?

2 things result from this fact:
1. Sephodwyrm is alrady acknowledged by all AE Powers to be himself a Power.
2. It is high time that sephodwyrm should openly, in the face of the new AE, publish my own view, my aim, my tendency and meet this nursery tale of the Specter of Sephodwyrm with a Manifesto of Sephodwyrm himself.

To this end, followers of Sephodwyrm of various nationalities have assembled in the (soon to be created) Sephodwyrm section and sketched the following Manifesto to be published in all language so that you sorry good for nothings can read them.

Bow before my will. Overthrow the self proclaimed Empress of the Universe! Destroy her vassals! Down with the Shah! Down with the Emperor! Down with the Sultan! Up Sephodwyrm.

Bored and self-deluded ones of all forums, unite!



Edited by sephodwyrm
"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11
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  Quote Scytho-Sarmatian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2004 at 06:45

Dark One -

It is not possible for one to get as much as one wants in life, so I would say that a system that advocates such illusions does not look good on paper or in practice.  Also, the "dictatorship of the proletariat" is still a dictatorship, and therefore wrong (in my opinion). 

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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2004 at 11:55
I would say "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" is a stupid, weak-mongering idea.  It should read "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his abilities".  No one should get anything because they "need" it, they should get it because they have shown themselves valuable enough to society to warrant society giving them what they receive.  A person who contributes nothing to society, like a homeless person or drug addict, might need food, but they don't deserve it because they do not work toward the good of the collective.  Such unproductive people are a blackhole of money for society and any society that strives to sustain them is like an ill person encouraging cancer, which is why I despise the theory of communism.

Edited by Genghis
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2004 at 15:38
I am afraid that you don't understand the theories of communism. Communism was created for the benefit of the masses, whereas capitalism is designed in such a way that everyone looks after their self interest. Therefore, many of the disadvantaged are left out in capitalism which benefits the very few that are able to propel themselves. Now, which system sounds evil, which one oppresses the the lower class. Your ranting appears to be fascist and Darwinist in nature and is full of contridictions. I pity you for your public embarressment.
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2004 at 18:33
How is it full of contradictions just because you disagree with it?
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2004 at 19:43

A person who contributes nothing to society, like a homeless person or drug addict, might need food, but they don't deserve it because they do not work toward the good of the collective.  Such unproductive people are a blackhole of money for society and any society that strives to sustain them is like an ill person encouraging cancer, which is why I despise the theory of communism.

We all have our own problems and issues, and individually we hope others would help us out. Who are you to say that a homeless person or a drug addict are the bane of societies. What about the drug dealers that contribute so much money to the economy and create drug addicts, they are saints under capitalism. Or the rent lords who keep the poor homeless and in the streets, their abilities are exploiting others for personal gain, so these people should be looked up to. Hell if you want to get legitimate, tobacco companies make millions of dollars promoting a product that has been linked with higher cancer rates.

Capitalism attacks the products of the problems of society because they feel these people put themselves in their situation, Communism believes that the problem begins with the roots of society who have abused their positions as the base of an economy and withered the branches on their own self gain.

This is where I think your confusion lies, capitalism encourages the exploitation of others, communism encourages the equalization of the exploitation.

Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.

Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
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  Quote sephodwyrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2004 at 19:47

I think he feels sympathetic to you if you say you despite a theory.

I despite a theory because it creates unproductive people.

Technically, Communism doesn't want to create unproductive people, and neither does capitalism. But capitalism has loads of unproductive people too. I see bums in People's Park in Berkeley. Do I despite capitalism? No.

I believe my philosophy is that I can take it if its great for the people. That's why Singapore is a mixture of Communism and Capitalism. They're practical people. They don't despise theories. They despise unproductivity.

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2004 at 21:00

I would say that the idea "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs", is exploitative of productive people who must support with many needs and no abilities.  So, who would you rather exploit, the best or the worst of society?

And part of the theory of capitalism as propogated by Adam Smith is that capitalism in the end works for the common good by raising all levels of economic productivity and output.  Drug dealers clearly don't do that, there's a difference between caring for yourself as capitalism promotes and making money on the suffering of others.

I really also don't like how you brought up smoking, that's a personal choice, and if people want to make that choice, I see nothing wrong with a company providing them with the product.

I've smoked before, but I don't think I was exploited.

And I would say I'm practical about economics.  I'm not a doctrinaire laissez faire capitalist, and I do think there should be some government involvement to assist the economy and direct economic activities toward something beneficial for the state.

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  Quote sephodwyrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2004 at 21:07

Why did I keep typing despite when I wanna type despise? haiz...
I'm too lazy to change it.

I think you guys are going to philosophical about exploitation etc etc. Masochists choose to be exploited...so...

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2004 at 10:28

Genghis I think you and me are very alike except when it comes to the purpose of government and economics.

I really also don't like how you brought up smoking, that's a personal choice, and if people want to make that choice, I see nothing wrong with a company providing them with the product.

I've smoked before, but I don't think I was exploited.

I also have no problem with people smoking but if someone conciously decides to participate in self-destructive behavior they are using it as a blanket for greater issues which need to be addressed.

Also the tobacco companies don't exploit individuals but the masses. Besides you can't argue that smoking cigarettes don't cause an increased risk of cancer. Therefore tobacco companies are marketing a product that may lead to an early death, not very humanitarion if you ask me.

However I do respect your opinion Genghis as I know that the goals of communism and capitalism are the same, to benefit all people.

Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.

Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
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Winterhaze13 View Drop Down
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2004 at 10:34

Originally posted by Genghis

I would say "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" is a stupid, weak-mongering idea.  It should read "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his abilities".  No one should get anything because they "need" it, they should get it because they have shown themselves valuable enough to society to warrant society giving them what they receive.  A person who contributes nothing to society, like a homeless person or drug addict, might need food, but they don't deserve it because they do not work toward the good of the collective.  Such unproductive people are a blackhole of money for society and any society that strives to sustain them is like an ill person encouraging cancer, which is why I despise the theory of communism.

To Genghis:

I am not attacking you because I disagree with you. Your comments suggest that the poor are inherently weak human beings, which is a main feature of social darwinism and a main motivation for fascism. Is there any physical or mental distinction between a poor African and a rich wsterner? No, there isn't. You are lucky that I do not report you to an administrater because that is a derogatory comment and is despicable. You are no longer welcome on my thread. 

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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2004 at 14:17

Genghis did not say anything offensive. If one believes in social darwinism that is fine. If one is a fascist that is fine. Even if one is a racist that is also fine (although one must be civil in the forums). I don't think that Genghis has been anything but civil. Also he did not say that there was a physical or mental distinction between a poor African and a rich westerner. He just believes (correct me if I'm wrong) if a poor african works hard enough than he should benefit from his hard labors. You implied that (incorrectly I hope) from what he said. 

Also you do have a right to request that Genghis no longer posts in this thread, although you do not have the authority to make it so. Nevertheless, I hope that Genghis respects your wishes, but I believe you, Winterhaze will lose out in the long run by taking this course of action.

Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.

Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
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Winterhaze13 View Drop Down
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2004 at 14:24

It is unacceptable to believe that the poor are weak and deserve their fate. Why don't you read the Codes of Conflict, it violates it,  it's absurd.

6. Nationalism, derogatory remarks to national or ethnic groups, jingoism, bigotry, racism, political propaganda.

By defending fascism and social Darwinism you are condoning racism, because that is what they imply. This is nothing personal, I just think his comments are offensive and I think that it should at least be brought to his attention. Don't compromise the integrity of this forum.



Edited by Winterhaze13
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2004 at 14:33

No it doesn't people are entitled to believe in what they want, the only thing this forum asks is that you control the way you express your beliefs that may be offensive to others in your postings.

In short believing in something and saying you believe in something are two different things. Sorry I was being philosophical when I wrote it.

Again I stick by Genghis has done nothing wrong if you can find somewhere where he said something inappropriate PM it to me. Also if you find any problems with anything I've said I would like to address it in PM, I do not want this to turn into an issue.

Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.

Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
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