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dark_one
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Topic: Russian Revolution Posted: 03-Dec-2004 at 17:06 |
Yes. America would have never subdued western Europe without Soviet help.
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Winterhaze13
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Posted: 07-Dec-2004 at 11:29 |
Was there anything that the Czarist government could have done to prevent this revolution? What was their biggest mistake?
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Winterhaze13
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Posted: 08-Dec-2004 at 10:36 |
I think their biggest misake was joining the war but I think in 1914 they had no real choice. Russia had missed out in industrialization and with modernity comes democratization and that was what infuriated the Russian people the most in 1917. Nicholas II should have instituted the gains from 1905, it may have spared him his life.
Edited by Winterhaze13
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dark_one
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Posted: 08-Dec-2004 at 15:13 |
[q]Was there anything that the Czarist government could have done to
prevent this revolution? What was their biggest mistake?[/q]
No, unless Nicholas' branch of the family died and his competent uncle
took the throne. Their biggest mistake was entering the Russo-Japanese
war of 1905 in order to expand to China and Korea. Should've stabilized
home more before going abroad.
[q]I think their biggest misake was joining the war but I think in 1914
they had no real choice. Russia had missed out in industrialization and
with modernity comes democratization and that was what infiriated the
Russian people the most in 1917. Nicholas II should have instituted the
gains from 1905, it may have spared him his life.[/q]
What infuriated the people was the fact that the Army which was taking
everything they couldg et was still badly undersupplied and
continuously retreated.
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Romano Nero
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Posted: 09-Dec-2004 at 08:07 |
Originally posted by Winterhaze13
I think their biggest misake was joining the war but I think in 1914 they had no real choice. Russia had missed out in industrialization and with modernity comes democratization and that was what infuriated the Russian people the most in 1917. Nicholas II should have instituted the gains from 1905, it may have spared him his life. |
Russia was poor. Serfdom was abandoned but poor peasants were still treated like serfs (less than human). All the wealth was in the hands of very few people (lik 0.1% of the population owning 90%+ of the nation's land). The efforts of the west to bring more welth to the masses (by beginning some minor attempts to redistribute wealth) has never been introduced to Russia. The people needed something better, and nobody was willing to give it to them.
That was the mistake of the Czar and it really isn't his sole responsibility. But still he could've saved his arse if Russia stayed out of the war. We had socialist uprisings in Germany and France too, but the state managed to control those (by slaughtering the revolutionaries, of course). In Russia it just didn't turn out that way.
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Winterhaze13
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Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 17:49 |
What is the single greatest cause of the Russian revolution? Is it the disaster of World War One, the decline of absolute monarchies, was it the Romanov's inability to deal with Russia's pressing concerns, or another that you may have?
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Romano Nero
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Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 18:03 |
There is not "one single greatest cause" and if you are looking for one by me, you'll only get confusing replies.
I think I've describe the social situation in a brief in the post above. The Russian people wanted change, the Romanovs were unwilling (or unable) to provide any change. Then, Russia got seriously kicked in the butt during WW1 and a brilliant man by the nickname "Lenin" appeared.
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dark_one
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Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 20:00 |
Was Russia better off under theBolsheviks than it would ahv ebeen
under Kerenski? I mean we were a superpower for quite a while and still
remain a militarily powerful nation(although the economy leaves a lot
to be desired). We also almos sindglehandedly defeated Germany in WW2.
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Genghis
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Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 20:52 |
I would say Russia would have been better off under almost any non-Bolshevik regime, at least domestically. Internationally, they probably would not have been as powerful, but that power was a great cost to the Soviet people, which they could have done without. However, without Stalin's industrialization, I doubt the Soviet Union could have won the Second World War.
It is quite interesting to extrapolate these "what if" questions.
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dark_one
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Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 21:27 |
Had Russia lost WW2 right away, Japan and Germany would rip it
apart for recources and then taek Britain with their combined force. At
that point USA would ahve been no match for them, so most of us(people
of non Teutonic white origins) wouldn't be here today without Stalin.
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Tobodai
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Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 23:58 |
overall reason for Russian revolution? Russias amazing historic ability to be incredibly out of tune and inability to adapt, it finally boiled over, with tragic results.
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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Winterhaze13
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Posted: 11-Dec-2004 at 19:19 |
Between Nicholas II, Lenin and Stalin who was the most capable leader.
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dark_one
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Posted: 12-Dec-2004 at 11:25 |
Originally posted by Tobodai
Russias amazing historic ability to be incredibly out of tune and
inability to adapt, it finally boiled over, with tragic results. |
I blame Germany. Russia would ahve adapted if it wasn't for the war.
Originally posted by Winterhaze13
Between Nicholas II, Lenin and Stalin who was the most capable leader. |
Nicholas was in no way capable, Lenin didn't ruel long enough so I guess Stalin is the only choice.
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J.M.Finegold
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Posted: 12-Dec-2004 at 11:36 |
Originally posted by Dark One
Had Russia lost WW2 right away, Japan and Germany would rip it
apart for recources and then taek Britain with their combined force. At
that point USA would ahve been no match for them, so most of us(people
of non Teutonic white origins) wouldn't be here today without Stalin. |
Japan's inability to defeat the United States was its gravest mistake.
What makes you think that a dual coalition of Japan and Germany could
defeat the United States and the United Kingdom, the two
greatest naval powers of the age - especially since the German
Kriegsmarine couldn't get out of port or suffer total
devastation by the hands of the Royal Navy. The only asset Germany had
for it was the U-boat, and even those were totally ineffective. By
1942 the United States was producing more submarine hunters than
Germany u-boats - it was just a war lost for Germany from the start.
The Japanese would have little success also - as soon as they were
defeated at Midway, then Coral Sea, the war for them was just a long
defense of the islands they had previously conquered - and by the end
of 1941 their military was so overstretched it would be logistically
impossible for them to form a strong army - strong enough to
take on the United States that is.
Also, the notion of the Soviet Union falling that fast is negated by
the fact that had Moscow fallen as soon as November of 1941 the
Wehrmacht had not the strength to continue fighting in the Urals
and Caucasus, and it's energy would be quickly sapped by continous
Soviet partisan warfare, and continued jabs from the Urals - which, in
fact, was where all the "resources" and industry was - not Western
Russia.
Face it, Hitler's cause was lost in 1933 - when he became Chancellor of Germany.
Between Nicholas II, Lenin and Stalin who was the most capable leader. |
All three should have been shot by the Cheka - I would rather have seen
Trotsky as the head of the Kremlin. He was much more adept at a more
liberal, constitutional, Communist regime in the Soviet Union.
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dark_one
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Posted: 12-Dec-2004 at 16:11 |
He was also greedy and corrupt. As for the other thing I know
that Russia falling was an impocibility(with the exception of a
revolution from the inside), but people seem to not realize that so I
made a "what if?" statement.
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J.M.Finegold
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Posted: 12-Dec-2004 at 19:39 |
I know - I just said, that had the Soviet Union fallen Germany's fate still lay down the drain.
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dark_one
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Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 13:16 |
What if Soviet Union stayed a liberal democracy, and had an anti
war stance like USA? We would ahve stayed neutral Until Britain was
knocked out and then overwhelmed.
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J.M.Finegold
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Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 19:46 |
No, because the Soviet Union already had an anti-war policy (until 1943
at least, theoritically). The reason the Soviet Union and Germany
went to war was because Hitler knew he couldn't touch Great
Britain, so instead, he decided to launch a overland invasion of the
Soviet Union.
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dark_one
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Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 21:30 |
That policy was a farce maent to make the other side feel more
secure. It wasn't a matter of whether there owuld be a war, but when it
would be.
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J.M.Finegold
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Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 21:58 |
Originally posted by dark_one
That policy was a farce maent to make the other side feel more
secure. It wasn't a matter of whether there owuld be a war, but when it
would be.
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STAVKA's re-building of the Red Army, which commenced in mid-1940 were
to be finished by 1942 - so, Stalin had no plans to enter a war with
Germany until 1943 - and even then it was doubted that he would attack
Germany. Most likely, assuming that Japan hit at Pearl Harbor, he
would have blasted through the Manchuria in order to take that for
himself.
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