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wefone90
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Topic: Turks Posted: 25-May-2006 at 18:48 |
"On the contrary. The Chinese have imported camels from the Hsiung-nu. The Gok Turks used camels for their mounted infantry. Perhaps you have heard of the Bactrian camel (Camelus bactrianus), a large even-toed ungulate native to the steppes of eastern Asia."
Actually no, none of the sources had suggested the Han have imported camels from the Hsiung-nu nor did the Gok Turks, hunted and fought on camelback, at least not that I'm aware of.
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Seko
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Posted: 25-May-2006 at 19:27 |
According to John P. Greer, The Armies and Enemies of Ancient China 1027 B.C. - 1286 A.D., 1976. The T'u Chueh used camels, (of which there were a considerable number) in reserve to disrupt enemy cavalry.
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wefone90
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Posted: 25-May-2006 at 19:41 |
"According to John P. Greer, The Armies and Enemies of Ancient China 1027 B.C. - 1286 A.D., 1976. The T'u Chueh used camels, (of which there were a considerable number) in reserve to disrupt enemy cavalry. "
That can be considered as misinterpreted, beacuse no sources or whatoever had shown references that they did hunted and fought on camelback. For your info, the Gok Turk composed about a million amries during its height, 2/3 of cavalry and 1/3 of infantry .
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Seko
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Posted: 25-May-2006 at 19:48 |
Dude, I gave you a source. You did not like it. What I am supposed to do? Say you are right?
Bactrian camels were abundant in the Gobi for thousands of years. I even have more sources that say the Gok Turks used camels as did many other steppes peoples over the centuries. I'll present them to you tommorow (those books are at my office by the way and I just left there).
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wefone90
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Posted: 25-May-2006 at 19:54 |
Dude, I gave you a source. You did not like it. What I am supposed to do? Say you are right?
Bactrian camels were abundant in the Gobi for thousands of years. I even have more sources that say the Gok Turks used camels as did many other steppes peoples over the centuries. I'll present them to you tommorow (those books are at my office by the way and I just left there).
Well, I'm talking about primary sources not secondary sources. So save your time for that. Because right now there's just no references of it.
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The Charioteer
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Posted: 25-May-2006 at 20:05 |
Seko is right about Han had camels via either Xiong Nu or central asia.
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Feramez
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Posted: 25-May-2006 at 20:08 |
I voted for both. I don't know why people have to make smart ass remarks to Xi Tujue for making this topic....damn idiots. If you don't like this topic then just don't read it.
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For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
-Ziya Gokalp-
TRK DNYASI Forum, join today.
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Seko
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Posted: 25-May-2006 at 20:12 |
http://depts.washington.edu/uwch/silkroad/exhibit/trade/horcamae.html
The link above has quotes and references to the camel. Good means of transport too.
The camel...manifests its merit in dangerous places; it has secret understanding of springs and sources; subtle indeed is its knowledge. -- Kuo P'u, 3rd c. CE (tr. E.H. Schafer)
Crying camels come out of the Western Regions, Tail to muzzle linked, one after the other. The posts of Han sqeep them away throught he clouds, The men of Hu lead them over the snow. -- Mei Yao-ch'en, 11th c. CE (tr. Schafer)
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Seko
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Posted: 25-May-2006 at 20:16 |
Originally posted by Feramez
I voted for both. I don't know why people have to make smart ass remarks to Xi Tujue for making this topic.... If you don't like this topic then just don't read it. |
And if you can't see that I gave Xi Tujue a link to continue his discussion on Turks from previous threads then you are being blind. Utlizing the posts we already have is frugal and wise. Creating more threads that have previously been discussed is not. Anyways, now that you have had your say what is your opinion on the topic?
And watch you mouth! I had to delete your obscenities.
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wefone90
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Posted: 25-May-2006 at 20:51 |
"The link above has quotes and references to the camel. Good means of transport too."
I'm aware of transport, thank you, more can be seen on TangSanCai mounted by merchants.
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Feramez
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Posted: 25-May-2006 at 21:05 |
Originally posted by Seko
Originally posted by Feramez
I voted for both. I don't know why people have to make smart ass remarks to Xi Tujue for making this topic.... If you don't like this topic then just don't read it. |
And if you can't see that I gave Xi Tujue a link to continue his discussion on Turks from previous threads then you are being blind. Utlizing the posts we already have is frugal and wise. Creating more threads that have previously been discussed is not. Anyways, now that you have had your say what is your opinion on the topic?
And watch you mouth! I had to delete your obscenities. |
Who said I was talking about only you? Why would you delete "damn idiots"? People called Xi Tujure a moron, moron and idiot are on the same level.
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For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
-Ziya Gokalp-
TRK DNYASI Forum, join today.
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The Charioteer
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Posted: 25-May-2006 at 21:23 |
Originally posted by wefone90
"The link above has quotes and references to the camel. Good means of transport too."
I'm aware of transport, thank you, more can be seen on TangSanCai mounted by merchants. |
like this Magnificent Painted Pottery Camel with Sogdian Rider and Hunting Owl (Early Tang Dynasty)
Edited by The Charioteer - 25-May-2006 at 21:25
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wefone90
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Posted: 25-May-2006 at 21:30 |
"like this Sogdian"
Yes, sort of, though it doesn't seem to be tri-colour to me.
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selam
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Posted: 26-May-2006 at 11:32 |
Originally posted by xi_tujue
well f you dostum who you're calling moronoid
I read on serveral pages that most chines and other asian people concider eaven the uigurs caucasoid. and i'm wondering what other people think your calling me moronoid has no point It's like I call you
dickonoid for calling me moronoid. |
selam ,xi_tujue
I am an uyghur !!! nice to meet you !!
,nice thread !! but I wanna say ,doest it matter whom turks look like ????no matter whom turks look like ,it doesn't affect all kinds of glory turks achive in history !!I think this thread is quite meaningless,i am really sorry !!!
uyghur is not caucasion ,but neither asian !! you can find caucasionlike uyhgur and you can also find very chineselike uyghur !!but we still call our selves uyghur and we are proud !!!the same goes to uzbek ,turkmen ,kazakh,kyrghiz!!!
warm regards
Edited by selam - 26-May-2006 at 11:35
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 26-May-2006 at 12:55 |
see i don't have a problem with you posting about the poll it's your point of view it's all good bro but I wanted know about the ancient Turks did they come from europe(the west) to asia or the other way around cuz I keep hearing different theories. I personally think Siberia Yenisay basin.
It's all good
btw what about anatolian, azeri tatar and meskh's
(how much we mix and change eyes don't lie almond shaped I think?)
Edited by xi_tujue - 26-May-2006 at 12:56
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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selam
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Posted: 27-May-2006 at 09:20 |
Originally posted by xi_tujue
see i don't have a problem with you posting about the poll it's your point of view it's all good bro but I wanted know about the ancient Turks did they come from europe(the west) to asia or the other way around cuz I keep hearing different theories. I personally think Siberia Yenisay basin.
It's all good
btw what about anatolian, azeri tatar and meskh's
(how much we mix and change eyes don't lie almond shaped I think?) |
what about youself ??? maybe you can put up your pic,let's see if you are caucasion ,dude !!!!
f
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Turkoglu
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Posted: 27-May-2006 at 15:27 |
why there is no Turanid in the poll?
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The Charioteer
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Posted: 27-May-2006 at 23:51 |
Originally posted by wefone90
揇ude, I gave you a source. You did not like it. What I am supposed to do? Say you are right?
Bactrian camels were abundant in the Gobi for thousands of years. I even have more sources that say the Gok Turks used camels as did many other steppes peoples over the centuries. I'll present them to you tommorow (those books are at my office by the way and I just left there). ?
Well, I'm talking about primary sources not secondary sources. So save your time for that. Because right now there's just no references of it. |
Camel was called "tuo tuo" during the Han-dynasty.
from description of Xiong Nu in the Han shu, tuotuo is one of the "rare domestic animal" that the Xiong Nu possess.
Its recorded in the Han Shu that during emperor Wen di's reign, Xiong Nu chief presented a tuo tuo to the Han emperor. During the successor of Wen di, emperor Jing di's period, there were royal enclosed animal preserve that contain the tuo tuo.(camel)
Record of Chang Hui(Han Shu), during emperor Xuan di's reign(wudi's geat-grand son),"Chang Hui was given imperial order to lead the army of Wusun consist of 50,000 cavalry, attacked Xiong Nu from west, as result, 39,000 Xiong Nu were taken prisoner including Chan Yu's father, sister-in law, concubines, chieftains, generals etc, along with 50,000 livestock including, horses cattle,donkey,mule,camels, and 600,000 sheeps were taken by Wusun."
In 2001, at the site of emperor Zhao di's(son of emperor Wu di) mausoleum, Chinese archaeologist unearthed animal skeletons contain in 54 pits alongside path leading to grave, some of them are camels.
Moreover, at Xinjiang's NiYa archaeological site, over thousands of Han-dynasty period bomboo slips has been discovered, from them, we know that the locals of "western region" had camels, they presented the tuo tuo as tribute to Han government.
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Lmprs
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Posted: 28-May-2006 at 11:20 |
The question is not clear. Who are you referring to by Turks?
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 28-May-2006 at 12:33 |
The "original ones" you know from siberia yensei basin CA before the expandsion of teir empires
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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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