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2 maps regarding wealth and unemployment in the EU

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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2 maps regarding wealth and unemployment in the EU
    Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 09:42
Originally posted by Mr Bobo

Thanks for that mosquito,

Is the current polish government pro-active about this sort of thing, like education for the unskilled/older workers if thats feasible? The point dragon made about free post-secondary education would be an interesting concept here too, i guess the money needs to be there to implement it and sustain it in the first place though. 

LoL! The curent polish goverment is not active in anything. They are band of idiots and the only thing they are doing is raising taxes for such hardworking people like im and giving it to the non working parasites. I must explain that right now we have goverment formed by the socialist party. Altough it will for sure change after the next elections in the next year and seems that libertarian and conservative parties will take the power.

I also must admit that many people started to work on their own, opened their own buissnes and are doing pretty well. Many polish companies are prospering, our export right now is much higher than our import and we got 5%-6% growth. The only problem is the goverment which keep raising taxes, what stops our companies from investing more monay and hiring more people. But our economy is still raising so it is only the matter of time when companies will be forced to do it.

"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote Mr Bobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 11:38

i see

As you probably guessed im quite ignorant in terms of eastern european politics, well atleast it seems theres hope for the future. I read that your interm PM is meant to be a highly respected econmist yet he is unable to help the Polish government's current economic woes. Who holds the real power here parliament, PM, president? or are they all equally to blame? It seems though that the current government is very unpopular as you say, and the elections next year will almost surley bring about change. Do you think that this will really affect the current situation?     

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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 13:05

I dont know if our PM is a "highly respected econmist". All i know is that he is damn social democrate and such people have very strange economical belives. 

In the polish political system power belongs to goverment and PM is only the head of the goverment. To rule effectivly the goverment needs majority in the parliament which current goverment dont seems to have. The opposition wasnt able to form its own goverment and with the support of president current goverment can still hold power but with very limited effectivness.

As for goverment and its influnece on the economy i dare to say that polish economy is now developing rather in spite of the efforts of goverment than thanks to its efforts.

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 14:09

Originally posted by Mosquito

Well, the answer is quite simple- 50 years or communism.

thatS' very true also for eastern Germany, many complain that 15 years after the unification everythign's still the same and statistics have even shown that mayn eastern Germans want Socialism back.  and the last regional elections in Saxony and brandenburg were disastrous. in a region in Saxony, the NPD (right-wing) party gained 10% (!!!) of the seats in the regional parliament.  the funny thign is the other major gainig party there was the PDS (leftists), and they have formed a coalition...

the problem is 50 years of Communism can't be cured overnight, or the east will also drag down the west and ultimately ruin the whole country for the next hundred years or so...



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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 14:47
Originally posted by Temujin

Originally posted by Mosquito

Well, the answer is quite simple- 50 years or communism.

thatS' very true also for eastern Germany, many complain that 15 years after the unification everythign's still the same and statistics have even shown that mayn eastern Germans want Socialism back.  and the last regional elections in Saxony and brandenburg were disastrous. in a region in Saxony, the NPD (right-wing) party gained 10% (!!!) of the seats in the regional parliament.  the funny thign is the other major gainig party there was the PDS (leftists), and they have formed a coalition...

the problem is 50 years of Communism can't be cured overnight, or the east will also drag down the west and ultimately ruin the whole country for the next hundred years or so...

I agree. But actually im proud of my countrymen who do much better than eastern Germans even without those hundrieds billions of marks which western Germany pumped into their eastern brothers. Maybe we have 17% unemployment but millions of Poles are doing in capitalism pretty good without any foreign help. Right now i have read that Poles from Szczecin (Stettin) and its area are buying real estates on the german side of the border, because small 1 room flat in Stettin cost as much as house with big garden (1000 sq metters) on the german side which is completelly depopulated. Thousands of Ossies (if i remember it is the word by which western Germans calls eastern) left their homes and moved toward west because were not able to live in their own land.

"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 15:10
completely true. it's funny, maybe the German population in eastern germany get's replaced by Poles one day
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 15:19
Originally posted by Temujin

and the last regional elections in Saxony and brandenburg were disastrous. in a region in Saxony, the NPD (right-wing) party gained 10% (!!!) of the seats in the regional parliament.  the funny thign is the other major gainig party there was the PDS (leftists), and they have formed a coalition...


The NPD and PDS formed a coalition??? Is that a new Molotov-Von Ribbentroppact or so?
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 15:34

here are some online articles in German:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,323185,00.h tml
http://shortnews.stern.de/start.cfm?id=541953&rubrik1=Po litik&rubrik2=Inland&rubrik3=Regional&sort=1& ;start=1

well, to sum it up, it's about money and the national PDS already condemned the unholy alliance.

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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 16:49
Do you think the EU will last forever?  I'd tend to say no, that it will fracture apart sometime in the next century or two after a decline in prestige.  I just can't see Europeans who've been squabbling and fighting for five thousand years continue with this 40-year old experiment indefinitely.
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  Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 16:50
Why not?  It's not the first time.  At least for western and southern Europe...
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 18:11

Originally posted by Temujin

completely true. it's funny, maybe the German population in eastern germany get's replaced by Poles one day

This is even more funny. Before Poland joined EU the opponents of integration were saying to not join EU because Germans will come and will try to buy all the land while in reality it are the Poles buying land in the eastern Germany because land in eastern Germany became much cheaper than in Poland.



Edited by Mosquito
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 18:36

Originally posted by Kubrat

Why not?  It's not the first time.  At least for western and southern Europe...

Yes, but that was an empire of subjugated and then assimilated peoples, now it's an association of free states, those things tend to be fragile.

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  Quote Mr Bobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 04:06
Originally posted by Genghis

Yes, but that was an empire of subjugated and then assimilated peoples, now it's an association of free states, those things tend to be fragile.



i agree,

also due to the history and strong nationalism of most countries within the EU it would take a very long time and lots of hard work to get the EU into any kind of position where it would have significant power as a whole body.  I suppose it acts as a kind of meeting point or negoitiating point for different situations, but most countries in it are far to nationialistic to take it much futher without major work.


Edited by Mr Bobo
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 14:14
bah, the US works as well, Eu will last as logn as the US
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 17:05
The United States is a large homogenous country though.  Europe has historically tended to disunity unless a country like Rome can unite them.  I just don't think that it will last, according to historical norms.
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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 17:24
Hi Jim:
The US will not remain homogenous for very long.
That does not means that it's a bad thing or that the country will be extinguished as USA.
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  Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 18:09
Genghis, the more fragile it is, the greater chance for long term success.  The more it is ruled by an ironfist ruler, the less chance for long termsuccess.
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 18:53

The United States is a large homogenous country though.

What have you been smokin' Genghis. The US is hardly a homogeneous nation. You have the mainly Irish liberal New Englanders, The New Yorkers are a breed of their own. You have the Christian Fundamentalists in the south, the farming communities in the midwest, people like californians and texans... I mean the list could go on and this isn't even the recent immigrant groups.

The US is rife with its own rivalrys and its own local agendas. Not terrible different from the EU, or do you equate the same language with homogenaity.

The US is not a melting pot, its a tossed salad, sure the parts are mixed together but you can tell the different parts things are made from. 

Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.

Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 19:46

Yes, I know it's not uniformly homogenous, but Americans all across this country have roughly the same values, economic system, language, historical identity, etc and most of the differences you gave are just regional differences by people who think and act "like Americans".  I guess I should say that it is homogenous in relation to the EU.  And yes, it is changing as Jalisco said, but it will be very unlikely that the US will become a polyglot state like the Austro-Hungarian empire or modern day Switzerland.

And I don't understand what you're saying Kubrat.  The EU can't force its members to remain in the EU, and I believe that sooner or later the divergent interests of the variegated states of Europe will eventually win out over this short stage in European history.  I can really see this taking shape because of the differences between Western European nations like France, Germany, Italy, Spain, etc. and the less industrialized states like Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary over economic issues.  Or perhaps political issues such as relations with Russia if the Russians become more assertive.

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  Quote Mr Bobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2004 at 03:22
Aye, regional differences are very different to differences of thousands of years of history. People of different race/colour/creed in the US may have very different backgrounds or histrories from the country(s) they imigrated from but it dosent mean they still dont identify themselves as 'American', you dont go and live in another country and say your still citizen of your native country. However in Europe people identify themselves by what country they are from as you would expect as each country has its own history/culture/values that are very distinguished and many people from countries in Europe would view it as an insult even to be considered in the same way as people from other countries in Europe, but in America no matter what background you are you cant really be insulted as being distinguished as 'American'.

Becasue of this i cant really see the EU progressing much further than it already has,  like i said before it would take a long time, and some very hard work


Edited by Mr Bobo
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