Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Hugo Chavez

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Aydin View Drop Down
Baron
Baron

Suspended

Joined: 13-Aug-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 481
  Quote Aydin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hugo Chavez
    Posted: 21-May-2006 at 16:20
What do you think about him?
 
I think Chavez is a fraud who is lucky to be leading a nation with oil at a time that oil is trading at $70. Much like other leaders around the world, he is responsible for various human rights violations. And he is moving towards becoming a dictator.
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-May-2006 at 17:10
How is he a fraud?
Back to Top
Illuminati View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 08-Dec-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 949
  Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 03:30
he definitely uses fear as a tactic. He's boosted his military signifigantly by claiming that the US is going to invade. even though the Bush hasn't the political capital to do so, not to mention the US has a huge deficit and an over-extended military. In short....he's using fear tactics to help him push along his political agenda. While at the same time criticiing Bush for using fear as a tactic. Chavez is the typical hypocritical politician.

in terms of his "liberalism", i'd say he's jsut your average ideological left-winger using nationalism and the promise of a socialist revolution to stay in power. Time will tell whether or not his economic policies work. they could, but he'd have to get most of south america and latin america to turn away from free-trade deals with Washington, something which he hasn't been too successful at. He has to be successful, he's already disliked by alot of economically powerful nations and groups because of his economic policy. Time will tell though. should be interesting to see ho whis policies turn out.


Edited by Illuminati - 22-May-2006 at 03:31
Back to Top
kotumeyil View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1494
  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 04:15

It's the well-known US propaganda to accuse every opposite regime as violating human rights. He brought up the most democratic constitution in the world. He's democratically elected several times and international observes accepted the fairness of the elections. The media oligopols conspired a coup against him and disonformed the people. They showed a scene as if his soldiers were firing the people but it was proved by the records of an amateur cameraman that some people dressed in soldier dresses opened fire to an empty street over a bridge and the TV cameramans were filming them. The media intentionally conspired against him; prepared a coup; collaborated with the USA agents (this is also proved; the US agent confused the general with whom he would contacted, because he had the same name with the conspiring general and the one he contacted was pro-Chavez!). Despite these faults and the continuing opposition of the media, he didn't censure it.

He's against the exploitation of his people by the imperialists so he's bashed that's all. 


Edited by kotumeyil - 22-May-2006 at 04:16
[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035
  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 07:13
Chavez is of course a politician and ambitious for power. The two things are pretty inseparable.
 
However, so far he seems to be using that power for the people's good, and the people appreciate it (apart of course from the ones that grew rich under the old system) which is how he wins elections.
 
What's a democratic politician supposed to do?
 
 
 
Back to Top
pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 09:29
Hugo however makes powerful enemies with stupid statements.  He has antagonized Mexico, the United States and now Brazil through his attitude and bluster.  Particularly in the support for Evo and the Petrobras nationalization.  Both of those men have unnecessarily antagonized the EU, a major source of investment for Latin America.
 
Chavez is a bit of a dinosaur politically:  "He he, I am a 1960s anti-imperialist Marxist-Leninist who thinks geriatric old Fidel is a success story.  And those Gringos are about to invade!!"  LOL    Oh, and let's lecture and threaten all the presidents of the Andean democracies, insult the president of Mexico by threats and derision, and humiliate the Euros publically.  That is always helpful.
 
What might be interesting is that if Hugo keeps dicking around with the Chinese, there may be a mutation of the Monroe Doctrine, or a new doctrine.  There are policies other than intervention that can be brought to bear on stupid politicians that like to spit on people who are 100 times bigger than they are.  It would not be a surprise if other LA countries (partcularly Brazil and Mexico) would be supportive.  My, my.  How things could change. 
 
 


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 22-May-2006 at 09:29
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 13:01
Originally posted by kotumeyil

It's the well-known US propaganda to accuse every opposite regime as violating human rights. He brought up the most democratic constitution in the world. He's democratically elected several times and international observes accepted the fairness of the elections. The media oligopols conspired a coup against him and disonformed the people. They showed a scene as if his soldiers were firing the people but it was proved by the records of an amateur cameraman that some people dressed in soldier dresses opened fire to an empty street over a bridge and the TV cameramans were filming them. The media intentionally conspired against him; prepared a coup; collaborated with the USA agents (this is also proved; the US agent confused the general with whom he would contacted, because he had the same name with the conspiring general and the one he contacted was pro-Chavez!). Despite these faults and the continuing opposition of the media, he didn't censure it.

He's against the exploitation of his people by the imperialists so he's bashed that's all. 
 
Well said.
 
And I agree with gcle's statement which when examined will debunk the claim that he is a fraud, he is a populalist.


Edited by Zagros - 22-May-2006 at 13:02
Back to Top
pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 13:48
A populist and a fool.  The stability of Venezuela's commodity based economy will always be fragile due to the volitility of commodity prices.  Oil producers are riding high right now, but what about in 5 years; 10 years?
 
Hugo Chavez can thumb his nose at neighbors and others at the moment, but why antagonize those who could help to buffer a future downturn?  And something tells me Hugo will still be around in 10 or 20 years.
 
"I got elected!  Fidel is still el hombre; why not me forever too?"  Wink
 
 
Back to Top
malizai_ View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan

Alcinous

Joined: 05-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2252
  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 15:58
I was going to defend Hugo for a minute but then thought hey i dont need to. He is in control of his resources and not the oil companie$. All he needs to do is watch his back and invest in staying alive, and countering regime changes.
Back to Top
pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 16:14
Originally posted by malizai_

I was going to defend Hugo for a minute but then thought hey i dont need to. He is in control of his resources and not the oil companie$. All he needs to do is watch his back and invest in staying alive, and countering regime changes.
 
Smile  Malizai makes my point for me.  Hugo is about as democratic as his buddy Fidel.  He can always fall back on the "but they elected me" excuse, but I don't see this man giving up power.  He will turn out to be a working class caudillo, and he and his clique will be just as corrupt.
 
And as far as the oil reserves, don't be surprised if he attempts to sell some of it to the Chinese.  Not good.  Not beneficial for the hemisphere.  A security concern if someone else gains influence in Venezuela.  Hmmm, spheres of influence; lines of commerce and communication; a "democratic" government called into disrepute.
 
See Hugo rant; hear Hugo bark!  Watch Hugo screw up.  Who he needs to watch may not be the US, it may be Brazil.
 
 
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 16:26
He at least has a worthy mandate from his people unlike the government of the US.
Back to Top
Paul View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
AE Immoderator

Joined: 21-Aug-2004
Location: Hyperborea
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 952
  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 16:39
I suppose a democratically elected leader who has no death squads, gulags, political, censorship and uses his vast oil wealth to improve the health and education of the majority of the poor rather than share it between a handful of already rich cronies, is diametrically opposed to everything America is and stands for.
Light blue touch paper and stand well back

http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk

http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk
Back to Top
pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 17:04
Originally posted by Zagros

He at least has a worthy mandate from his people unlike the government of the US.
 
"The Worthy Caudillo"  New on Broadway.  Music and lyrics by Zagros.
 
Now that was a dopey comment you made, you know.
 
 
Back to Top
pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 17:07
Originally posted by Paul

I suppose a democratically elected leader who has no death squads, gulags, political, censorship and uses his vast oil wealth to improve the health and education of the majority of the poor rather than share it between a handful of already rich cronies, is diametrically opposed to everything America is and stands for.
 
What was that topic?  Professors: how enlightened are they?
 
That comment, Mr. esteemed editor, is as dopey as Zagros's.
 
Look beyond the populist crap to less lofty possibilities.  Those are always more likely.
 
 


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 22-May-2006 at 17:07
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 17:35

Dopey? Care to explain HOW, at least?  Do you mean dopey as in it was so obvious that I need not have pointed it out? The man is serving his people, your president is serving the shadowy corporations and lobbies who through him have placed your country in servitude of their vested interests, interests inconsistant with those of your nation and its well being.



Edited by Zagros - 22-May-2006 at 17:37
Back to Top
kotumeyil View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1494
  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 17:50
The economy of Venezuella was almost %100 dependent to imports before. Now Chavez supports his own farmers and popular communes to produce and be adequate by themselves. These endeavours deserve respect, not bashing.
[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
Back to Top
pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 17:59
Originally posted by Zagros

Dopey? Care to explain HOW, at least?  Do you mean dopey as in it was so obvious that I need not have pointed it out? The man is serving his people, your president is serving the shadowy corporations and lobbies who through him have placed your country in servitude of their vested interests, interests inconsistant with those of your nation and its well being.

 
Well that is YOUR opinion.  I don't argue with the fact that Big Oil runs the country in effect.  That is nothing new.  The railroads ran it 100 years ago and produced tremendous wealth and jobs that benefitted more than they harmed.  Many immigrants found employment and pensions with the railroad companies, including some of my ancestors.  Same with steel and mining.
 
In the 1930s the oil industry superceded coal and has produced wealth and jobs also.  The present goverment is run by a bunch of Texas big oil men.  George W. Bush is no prize, but he was elected, and will leave office in 2009.  Some initiatives of his administration don't get headlines and are not argued about in AE.  Not all of them have been bad.
 
I don't think Hugo Chavez will leave office until forced out.  I think his head, as those of his associates, is stuck in a time warp, and his policy model is 15-20 years out of date.  Your comment about mandates is misplaced.  The process worked here and will work in 2009.  In Venezuela, that remains to be seen.
 
 
 
 


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 22-May-2006 at 18:02
Back to Top
pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 18:09
Originally posted by kotumeyil

The economy of Venezuella was almost %100 dependent to imports before. Now Chavez supports his own farmers and popular communes to produce and be adequate by themselves. These endeavours deserve respect, not bashing.
 
How could the economy have been 100% dependent on imports? Confused
 
Venezuela has produced oil for a good long time.  I don't claim knowledge of their agricultural sector, but would they not have some other exports as well?  If not, then they are a commodity dependant economy with little room for maneuver.
 
Chavez's policies will not be able to be evaluated for some time, but they will probably fall far short like most historical command economies, with inefficient nationalized (read politicized) major sectors.
 
 
Back to Top
Maharbbal View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 08-Mar-2006
Location: Paris
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2120
  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 21:43
Hi,

The matter with Hugo and Fidel and potentially Evo is that they are real Janus.

On the one hand they are dictators and no one can back them for this reason.

One the other hand they have healthy economical initiatives (with the problem that it is usually state directed hence gets soon corrupted and uneffective). Getting oil and gas money for yourself is a logical thing to do (see UAE, Norway or England). I won't feel sorry for the companies who have lost their undicent sources of profit. Lets face it if oil companies brought happyness in a country it would be well known and Nigeria would be a nice place to live.

Pikes calm down a little. What about Chavez selling oil to the Chinese? If it was for me they'd get nukes instead before they f*** us all. But hey lets face it they can get whatever they want whenever they want as long as they pay (including US public debt ). Last but not least, don't get excited when people refuse to consider the capitalistic system has potentially weaker than another one.

Finaly, calling Chavez a populist is maybe true. But then again who's not?

M.

PS: I of course do not want to send missiles on Asia. Not right now at least.
I am a free donkey!
Back to Top
Illuminati View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 08-Dec-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 949
  Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2006 at 23:22
No one can deny that Hugo Chavz is doing what he thinks is in the best interest of his people. That much is a given. Yet, I don't think he's that smart of a leader. Chavez however, is an ideologue. The question is how far will he go and what tactics will he use to ensure that his ideology is pushed forward when times get rough. he's already shown himself to be a little hot-headed and his rhetoric isn't the best when it comes being someone that others would want to do business with. Not to mention he uses the same fear-mongering tactics that bush uses to gain and maintain popular support.

Personally, i think he's an economic moron. You can't privatize too much in world where everythig is based on a global economy. People may not like that fact, but it is the truth. He also isn't a strong supporter of human rights and freedom. He merely sides with those who oppose his enemies.....and that makes him no different than any other corrupt politician out there.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.049 seconds.