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Southern Baltic, Slavic names

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  Quote Svantoretro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Southern Baltic, Slavic names
    Posted: 20-May-2006 at 19:04
Might anyone tell me what some common male/female Slavic names might have been in 1000 A.D., particularly among the Rugerii in the Isle of Rugen?
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  Quote polak966 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2006 at 00:40
you mean the ranians (rugians might get confusing with an earlier germanic tribe inhabiting the same area).
i found a short list of ranian kings (from Polish wikipedia):
im afraid that might be the best you can do when it comes to finding names. these regions were poorly documented and usually in foreign sources.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2006 at 01:03
I wonder also, the Byzantine general Belisarius is thought to have perhaps been of Slavic stock. Some say his name translates from Slavic into "white prince". Are any such names found in the Slavic languages of this period?
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  Quote polak966 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2006 at 13:36
beli could somehow be linked to to slavic word for white, but most slavs back then called their princes kniaz. dont see a connection there.
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  Quote Svantoretro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2006 at 19:06
As to what exactly the inhabitants of Arkona/Rugen were called in 1000 A.D., I'm confused.
I've seen "Rugerii", "Rugians", etc.  I need to settle on one.
I am interested in determining the early collective name of this people, in 1000 A.D.
Dost thou still say, "Ranians"?
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  Quote polak966 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 00:26
well my only sources are polish, and they are called ranowie, also rujanie, but also rugianie from the german name for these tribes. the one english source ('the early slavs' by p.m. bradford) names them 'ranen'.
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  Quote Red_Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 14:58
Originally posted by Svantoretro

Might anyone tell me what some common male/female Slavic names might have been in 1000 A.D., particularly among the Rugerii in the Isle of Rugen?
I can tell you a name but it is 1400 years old.
the name is DOBRITA(a "lord"[kniaz] of slavian tribe)
It's a common name male and female
"The slave is fighting for freedom,free is fighting for perfectness"
Yane Sandanski
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  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 17:24

Not once - reading history, Sagas, Saxo, Adam etc. about this region have I come across other names but "Vends" for inhabitans on Rugen. I wonder if Rugen actually had a name at that time. I never read any reference about that (as I remember).

The reference has always been "Fstningen Arkona i Venden" - "The Fortification Arkona in Venden"

Venden was the kingdom in the region at that time and there has been more kings of Venden... Ie. Burislaw was King of Venden.
 
When I say "Vends" in the first paragraph, it is the norse word for the people of Venden, "Venderne" translated into english.


Edited by Northman - 01-Jun-2006 at 17:25
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  Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 18:04
Originally posted by Northman

Not once - reading history, Sagas, Saxo, Adam etc. about this region have I come across other names but "Vends" for inhabitans on Rugen. I wonder if Rugen actually had a name at that time. I never read any reference about that (as I remember).

The reference has always been "Fstningen Arkona i Venden" - "The Fortification Arkona in Venden"

Venden was the kingdom in the region at that time and there has been more kings of Venden... Ie. Burislaw was King of Venden.
 
When I say "Vends" in the first paragraph, it is the norse word for the people of Venden, "Venderne" translated into english.
 
Venden (Wends) was a germanic term for neighbouring slavs-it doesn't mean a specific tribe...like Walloon in Belgium or Wales in Britain...
 
Rujen sounds like rujno (red in serbian)...and there's a plant ruj or rujevina... 
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  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 18:33
Maybe we are off topic here, but surely the Danes saw the Wends as very specific.
In the Medieval Ages, they had a kingdom with the stronghold on Rugen - millitary and political centre.
 
Please read:
and

 
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  Quote Svantoretro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 19:13
Thanks, everyone, for the info!
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  Quote polak966 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 00:54
i always fi d the term wend very confusing. i mostly find it refering to all the polabian tribes. there were 3 main tribal confederations, obodrites, vieleti, and serbs (sorbs). among those confederations were multiple smaller tirbes.
but not one of them was called wend. its a general term imo for the polabian slavs. as far as i know no slavi tribe has ever called its self 'wend'. even in polish the word is borrowed from germanic.
from wikipedia:
Wends (German: Wenden, Latin: Venedi) is the English name for some Slavic people from north-central Europe, particularly the Sorbs living in modern-day Germany. The name is derived from the German term Veneter, used for various non-Germanic tribes
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  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 05:18
Yes, I am aware of that definition, but I dont think they (the danes, and those who wrote the history) made that distinction back then.
 
"Venden" was not in reference to a certain people, but to a certain area - or in reference to the kingdom of Venden. Largely I believe, the area between the rivers, Elben and Oder.
 
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  Quote Sarmata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 02:09
Acctually in reference to the idea of Belisarius meaning White prince, Beli, could most definately mean white as for sarius, it could come from "Sar" or "Car" which some Slavs used for "Emperor", that is whichever Slavic states had Emperors (Russia, Serbia, Bulgaria). I myself have never heard of that but its really interesting I think I might look into it some more.
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  Quote Chilbudios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 03:45
Belisarius cannot be derived from "Beli tsar" as "tsar" is derived from "caesar" and this word's first occurence is several centuries later.
 
There are other problems also.
The organisation of the Slavic society shows some controversial aspects. The Byzantine and Latin sources present chieftains or kings (like Ardagastus mentioned by Theophylact Simocatta or Samo mentioned by Fredegarius) but also the lack of them (Procopius' demokratia or the anarcha from Strategikon). What then was a "prince"/"tsar" for Slavs in 6th century? What is the archetype, where is the archaeological or written evidence for such an individual?
 
Also, the first loot raids (not migrations and settlement!) of Slavs south of Danube happened in the first half of 6th century (Antes in 518). How can be linked the alleged Slavic ancestry with the life of Belisarius, Roman soldier from his youth, bodyguard during Justin I, etc.?
 
Of course, one may say the ethnonyms used by sources are misleading and probably do not always refer what we want them to (for instance, groups separated by linguistic frontiers). But then the problems of the Slavic origin of Belisarius become simply undebateable for having even less premises for discussion.
 


Edited by Chilbudios - 13-Jun-2006 at 03:50
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  Quote Sarmata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 04:01
All you say is true. However given that the Slavs are a very little known people of europe and their ancestry shady I think its not so out of the quesiton for belisarius to have a Slavic ancestry, though it may just be and my biased opinion and just getting excited over such an idea.
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