Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

The plan to make the biggest port in the Balkans

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Theodore Felix View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 10-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 769
  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The plan to make the biggest port in the Balkans
    Posted: 17-May-2006 at 18:39
The AMBO pipeline project, the plan is to make an oil pipeline from Burgas, Bulgaria, FYROM and opening to the meditterenean.



The plan of the proposed project:


This plan will mean that Vlora not Durres(Durrazo, anct. Dyrrachium) will be the chief port of Albania. It will accomondate the largest tankers in the world, provide electricty for much of Albania, on top of jobs.

At the cost of the cities feel. It would change Vlora from what I know completely. Right now its quiet and peaceful. If this were to be created. The city would be forever changed.

news report on it:

Albania Is Preparing for AMBO Pipeline

15 May 2006 | 14:04 | FOCUS News Agency



Tirana. Albania is getting ready for the AMBO oil pipeline, Macedonian newspaper Dnevnik reads today.
The Foreign Policy Commission at the Albanian Parliament approved the draft resolution on the construction of the pipeline.
It is expected that the construction of the pipeline from Bourgas port in Bulgaria through Macedonia to Vlora in Albania will cost over USD 1 billion.
The pipeline will be used to transport petrol from the Caspian Sea region to western Europe. The oil pipeline should be finished by 2009 the latest, the newspaper notes.

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?catid=128&newsid=88408&ch=0
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 18:47

Well,as long as they constract the Burgas-Alexandroupolis pipeline,i think it would be fine.

"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
Mila View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4030
  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 19:32
Congratulations, Theodore! I hope it comes to pass.
[IMG]http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/9259/1xw2.jpg">
Back to Top
bg_turk View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2347
  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 19:51
The TransBalkan pipeline would be one of the major infrastructure projects in the Balkans.
For one it will increase Bulgaria's influence in the West Balkans, Macedonia's reliance on Bulgaria and might even be helpful in keeping Greek hands off the counry.
Back to Top
Theodore Felix View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 10-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 769
  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 20:42
Im not too sure about it. Im very attached to this city and if it does happen, it will destroy the feel of it. On top of the fact that a major park was in the works here and if this is constructed, it will not happen. So far its still a plan and nothing less, until recently our quasi-mentally challanged PM, Salih Berisha, was against it because the predeccessor, Fatos Nano, supported it. But now he seems for it. It still has to pass, but a nice call from America will likely push it through.
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 08:41
For one it will increase Bulgaria's influence in the West Balkans, Macedonia's reliance on Bulgaria and might even be helpful in keeping Greek hands off the counry.
 
"Greek hands"?LOLWithout the Hellenic Capital F.Y.R.O.M and Albania would have economically collapsed.They should be more than thankfull to the Hellenic State.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
bg_turk View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2347
  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 08:46
Originally posted by Spartakus

Without the Hellenic Capital F.Y.R.O.M and Albania would have economically collapsed.
 
This is what worries me. Macedonia is becoming increasingly dependent on Greece ... Greece can pull the plug off at any moment and bring the Republic of Macedonia to its knees. The Greek embargoes due to the name dispute had a devestating effect on the economy.
 
 After all what can a small landlocked country in the Middle of the Balkans do? Hopefully this pipeline will stop this tendency, and decrease Macedonia's reliance on Greece.


Edited by bg_turk - 18-May-2006 at 08:47
Back to Top
Leonidas View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4613
  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 10:17
Bg, when you open up your economy and become integrated into the broader EU/regional economy, inter-dependace is be unaviodable (and positive). FYROMian integration with a relatively advanced balkan economy is normal, not threatening. Even with other parties coming into play, greece will naturally be quite strong in this way. First in best dressed.Wink

The greeks invested in a small landlocked country that came very close to civil war. I think they deserve some credit for actaully sticking by them with their wallets. History aside, we can all disagree about that, FYROM benfited from greek investment, as do the greeks (this is business after all). Wouldnt this all mean that its in greece's interest to have a stable and prosperous FRYOM?

Back to Top
Leonidas View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4613
  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 10:27
Originally posted by Theodore Felix

Im not too sure about it. Im very attached to this city and if it does happen, it will destroy the feel of it. On top of the fact that a major park was in the works here and if this is constructed, it will not happen. So far its still a plan and nothing less, until recently our quasi-mentally challanged PM, Salih Berisha, was against it because the predeccessor, Fatos Nano, supported it. But now he seems for it. It still has to pass, but a nice call from America will likely push it through.

Theodore Felix, it would be in albania's interest to play the piplene/oil politics while its still important. Such i thing would seroiusly pull those three countries together through one common advantge. It also means you dont need ships to go through the very busy bosophorus.
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 14:35

After all what can a small landlocked country in the Middle of the Balkans do? Hopefully this pipeline will stop this tendency, and decrease Macedonia's reliance on Greece.

F.Y.R.O.M will always be dependent by someone,if not Hellas then from some other ,Balkanian or not, country.And honestly,it's better to be dependent by Hellas,than any other Balkanic country.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
Mortaza View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 14:52

agree about dependent thing, not agree about hellas.Smile

Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 14:56
Of course you don't.Wink
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
bg_turk View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2347
  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 15:19
Originally posted by Leonidas

The greeks invested in a small landlocked country that came very close to civil war. I think they deserve some credit for actaully sticking by them with their wallets. History aside, we can all disagree about that, FYROM benfited from greek investment, as do the greeks (this is business after all). Wouldnt this all mean that its in greece's interest to have a stable and prosperous FRYOM?

 
Have you talked to Macedonians about the role of Greece in their country? I have. When you mention about the economic role of Greece in their country - the first word that comes to mind is not prosperity nor stability, it is exploitation! and this is precisely what Greece is doing.
 
A Greek firm has just opened a sweatshop in my town too, Southern Bulgaria, exploiting workers. A relative of mine works there, and she hasn't been paid for several months now. You really call this prosperity?
 
 
By the way let us not joke ourselves about the Greek intentions with Macedonia. Greece would see Macedonia torn apart at the first opportunity.
 
And finally Greece is investing in the Balkans not because she is concerned about its propserity and stability, but because it bring fat propfits. Bulgarian workers are treated like slaves in Greek firms.
 
 
PS. By the way Turkish firms are no better. There was case where a Turkish firm was employing teenagers at an age below the working age in Bulgaira. In Turkey that may be fine, but not in Bulgaira.


Edited by bg_turk - 18-May-2006 at 15:21
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 15:53
Yeah,evil Hellas is responsible for every damn Balkanic Incompetence.We did nothing ,and we are being accursed for everything!LOL .I have also talked to F.Y.R.O.M.I.A.N.S ....
Exploitation?Bullshiet!Do you know how many Hellens were left unemployed so your fellow Fyromians and Bulgarians have some job and bread in their table?Of course you do not.And they should say thank you ,because they even have a bloody job.In the borders of Bulgaria,people ask to open the border in order to come Hellas,so they can improve their standard of living.
 
Greece would see Macedonia torn apart at the first opportunity.
You need to learn more about geopolitics my friend.If FYROM tears apart,then it will create a great instability in our Northren Border.And no logical State like Hellas wants that.The Hellenic State invests so the Balkanians be able to improve their standard of living.Poor Balkans,means highly unstable Balkans.Nobody wants unstable Balkans.And the Hellenic State is the only one which actually support that small sh*thole called FYROM in the Center of Balkans.The other Balkanic countries,which border FYROM, would definently want it to be teared apart,so they can claim territories.
 
A Greek firm has just opened a sweatshop in my town too, Southern Bulgaria, exploiting workers. A relative of mine works there, and she hasn't been paid for several months now. You really call this prosperity?
 
Don't blame Hellas,blame Capitalism.Every major company would treat them in the same way.Just because is Hellenic,it does not mean it's Hellas's fault.And it is not Hellas's fault whether Balkanic countries,after 10 years ,cannot guarantee prosperity for  their people.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
bg_turk View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2347
  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 16:00
Originally posted by Spartakus

I have also talked to F.Y.R.O.M.I.A.N.S ....
Exploitation?Bullshiet!Do you know how many Hellens were left unemployed so your fellow Fyromians and Bulgarians have some job and bread in their table?Of course you do not.
 
I think the MACEDONIANS feel exploited by Greece, besides what other choice to they have? Their only port and opening to the world is Thessaloniki in Greece.
 
 
And they should say thank you ,because they even have a bloody job.In the borders of Bulgaria,people ask to open the border in order to come Hellas,so they can improve their standard of living.
 
I want Greece to open the borders so that I can go to the beach and meet my brothers in Western Thrace ;-) 2007 come faster, the Aegean is awaiting me!


Edited by bg_turk - 18-May-2006 at 16:01
Back to Top
akritas View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Hegemom

Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Location: Greek Macedonia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1460
  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 16:07
There are two competing projects, one of which is gaining popularity although they are both fraught with instabilities:
The AMBO pipeline project and the Baku-Ceyhan pipeline project. In my opinion , the latter is still uncertain-despite the recent visible movements. However, the AMBO project will very likely go ahead with considerable financing by Western interests, unless the Bourgas-Alexandroupolis project begins in earnest even the Bulgarian (after the Rice visit) make steps backward.
 
Investors and oil companies want three things in the new "energy" era of alternative sources of oil:
 
1)Accessibility. Alexandroupolis  sea port are very accessible to international markets and despite the pessimists, any marine/civil engineer will demonstrate the feasibility of VLCC super-tanker facilities off Alexandroupolis and of course one from  the biggest merchandise fleet in the wold .
 
2)Route length.The Bourgas-Alexandroupoulis transit is very short compared to the other proposed transit routes
 
3)Geopolitical stability.Pipelines through Bulgaria and Greece are geopolitically very stable given the absence of autonomist movements.
 
As I said investors wanted the mentioned factors  but the two major  global energical sites want to play theirs plans. I also just remnind you the recent energy agreement between Germany and Russia that make nervous the superpower.


Edited by akritas - 18-May-2006 at 16:12
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 16:07
I think the MACEDONIANS feel exploited by Greece, besides what other choice to they have?
 
It's a small sh*thole,they have no choice.Whether it's Hellas or Bulgaria or Albania or USA,they will always have somebody to feel exploited from.
 
I want Greece to open the borders so that I can go to the beach and meet my brothers in Western Thrace ;-) 2007 come faster, the Aegean is awaiting me!
 
You  only can come through a group for vacation because the border will not open ;)
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
bg_turk View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2347
  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 16:59
Originally posted by Spartakus

You  only can come through a group for vacation because the border will not open ;)
If Greece obstructs my freedom of movement as an EU citizen, I will definitely sue the hell out of that state. I am sure the border checkpoints will be dissolved after EU membership.
 
Actually I think the border is mined ... I hope they will demine it in time. Thrace is going to be united once again!
 
 
 
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 17:11

When Bulgaria comes to EU,then of course you can come,but without the same trouble as it is now.The borders,even inside the EU,exist.You cannot just come and go,legally i mean.And Thrace needs no unification.Wink

"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
Back to Top
bg_turk View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2347
  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 17:54
Originally posted by Spartakus

When Bulgaria comes to EU,then of course you can come,but without the same trouble as it is now.The borders,even inside the EU,exist.You cannot just come and go,legally i mean.And Thrace needs no unification.Wink

Of course there will be borders formally, but will be able to cross anywhere you want right?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.