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The plan to make the biggest port in the Balkans
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Posts: 529 		  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The plan to make the biggest port in the Balkans
    Posted: 26-May-2006 at 04:38
Considering the pipeline, I'm not really sure if it's so good to have it. I fear mainly of increasing Balkan (or at least Bulgarian and Greek for the beginning) dependency on Russia's power supplies. I hope I'm wrong, but...
Btw, has work on the Burgas-Alexandroupolis line already started?
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2006 at 09:15
Originally posted by Theodore Felix

Guys please stick to the pipeline topic. Akritas made a very interesting post before.

apologies for the diversion Theodore Felix

we also discussed the pipeline (in relation to greece) here a while ago, some  good points on (mainly geopolitics) that pipeline made by VaZeLoS (what happened to him?Disapprove) and Neoptolemos

Edited by Leonidas - 20-May-2006 at 09:18
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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 14:11
Greece also help the Albanian economy as also and Italy that is the biggest investor in this country.
 

About 200-220 Greek enterprises are actively involved in the following sectors: telecommunications, trading of oil products, banking services, construction, food, textiles, clothing and footwear industries. The most important among them are the following:

  1. Banking institutions: National Bank, Commercial Bank, Alpha Bank and Tirana Bank (Piraeus).
  2. Telecommunication companies: Albanian Mobile Communications (Cosmote), VODAFON ALBANIA (VODAFON/PANAFON).
  3. Oil companies: Global LTD (Hellenic Petroleum), Mamidakis Oil, and DIEKAT ATE.
  4. Tobacco Mihailides S.A. and Kavex Tobacco Industry.
  5. Quest Albania Computer Company.

The Albanians that live in Greece know very well what aare those companies but also and the majority of the financial efforts and budget. The  Hellenic Plan for the Economic Reconstruction of the Balkans. and s o far, Albania has submitted the following projects for approval:

  1. The construction of Konispoli Border Crossing Station and its road connection to   Agioi Saranda.
  2. The high voltage (400KV) Elbasan-Tirana-Podgorica Transmission Line
  3. The construction of the Pogradec-Korca Road

Greece is a small country but know  that the financial development of the  neighbors countries is one way path. The nationalistic ideas (unifications, minorities e.t..c) nobody help in the Balkans.



Edited by akritas - 19-May-2006 at 14:13
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 13:01
Originally posted by Theodore Felix

Guys please stick to the pipeline topic. Akritas made a very interesting post before.
 
I can understand that you have concerns about the environmental impact of the pipeline, but I think for poor and unemployed Albanians the economical advantages will by far outweigh the environmental cost.
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Posts: 769 		  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 12:00
Guys please stick to the pipeline topic. Akritas made a very interesting post before.
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Posts: 769 		  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 12:00
Guys please stick to the pipeline topic. Akritas made a very interesting post before.
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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 07:39
why say goodbye? I am a bulgarian citizen. Bulgaria will always defend and protect me against the bad elinikos
 
You do not know how the Hellenic System works.....Wink
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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 05:54

Economic relations between Greece and FYROM are developing rapidly on all levels (investments, buying of formerly state-owned companies, trade transactions, etc). Greece is first among foreign investors in FYROM, having invested over 460 million  and having created over 8,000 jobs in the sectors of oil products, telecommunications, mines, the textile industry, banking, food and tobacco. As far as bilateral trade is concerned, our country, during 2004, was the second  largest trade partner of FYROM, following Germany.
 
As far as investment capital is concerned, the purchase of the majority of shares of the "IEOA" oil refinery by the Greek oil Company "Hellenic Petroleum", as well as the construction of the Thessaloniki-Skopje oil pipeline, constitute the most significant investment.

Other major investments are the purchase of:
  1. FYROM's largest Banking Institution (STOPANSKA BANKA) by the National Bank of Greece,
  2. KREDITNA BANK by Alpha Bank
  3. The local cement company USJE by the joint-venture of OEOAI and the Swiss Company HOLDERBANK
  4. PIVARA SKOPJE Company by BALKANBREW HOLDING LTD (a joint venture of Athenian Brewery and 3E)
  5. STRUMNICA TABAK
  6. JUGOTUTUN by "Michailidis A. Tobacco"
  7. The majority shares of the TV SKOPJA Company by the Greek ALPHA station
  8. The second-generation mobile telephone permits by OTE for the amount of 20 million .

Except the name issue (a political issue and not economical) the biliteral relationship are follow the mementioned set of measures constitutes tangible proof that the W. Balkans as as  key priority for the EU and Greece of course.



Edited by akritas - 19-May-2006 at 07:44
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 05:34
 
Originally posted by bg_turk

Have you talked to Macedonians about the role of Greece in their country? I have. When you mention about the economic role of Greece in their country - the first word that comes to mind is not prosperity nor stability, it is exploitation! and this is precisely what Greece is doing.
 
A Greek firm has just opened a sweatshop in my town too, Southern Bulgaria, exploiting workers. A relative of mine works there, and she hasn't been paid for several months now. You really call this prosperity?
News flash, Bg, what your describing is capitalism at its rawest, nothing unique there. As already aluded to, if it isnt the greeks then it would be someone else. Hec we got exploited as factory workers and toilet cleaners when we emigrated, the west done it to greece, im sure the FYROMian's will have their turn in being workers and eventually task masters. What they want is opportunty to be a task master, thing is, to get that opportuinty you have to concede some trade off's now.

 Tough path, but either way if you want to join that system generally thats what happens.

As for what your FRYOMians are saying. They sell their assets and open up their economy, no one makes them do this. They want EU membership thats what that membership means. So you can talk to as many as you want but they obvoiusly havent learnt the hard lesson of globalisation yet.
 
Originally posted by bg_turk

By the way let us not joke ourselves about the Greek intentions with Macedonia. Greece would see Macedonia torn apart at the first opportunity.
actaully your second guessing intentions and passing that of as fact. No one wants their investment to pass on to another power or be in danger from being destroyed.

Your judgment has been consistantly clouded and warped by your bias, but hey your consistantThumbs Up
 
Originally posted by bg_turk

And finally Greece is investing in the Balkans not because she is concerned about its propserity and stability, but because it bring fat propfits. Bulgarian workers are treated like slaves in Greek firms.
 Re-read this line Geek
Originally posted by Leonidas

FYROM benfited from greek investment, as do the greeks (this is business after all).
 
Originally posted by bg_turk

PS. By the way Turkish firms are no better. There was case where a Turkish firm was employing teenagers at an age below the working age in Bulgaira. In Turkey that may be fine, but not in Bulgaira.
yes there are no good guys in capitalismEvil Smile, just profits and alot of unfairness


Edited by Leonidas - 19-May-2006 at 05:43
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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 01:50
Originally posted by bg_turk

By the way a pomak friend of mine from Zlatograd once crossed the border by mistake ... I am glad she did not step on a mine or something.
Greece had long been de-mining its borders with Bulgaria and the Grammos and Vitsi area and in 2003 started removing anti-personnel mines along the Evros border. It has 10 years to complete removal, according to the Mine Ban Treaty, which was signed in Ottawa in December 1999.
 
So stop to say lies and spread your propaganda


Edited by akritas - 19-May-2006 at 01:50
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By the way a pomak friend of mine from Zlatograd once crossed the border by mistake ... I am glad she did not step on a mine or something.
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 18:26
Originally posted by Spartakus

Yep,but if you cause any trouble,then say goodbye to Bulgaria.Wink
why say goodbye? I am a bulgarian citizen. Bulgaria will always defend and protect me against the bad elinikos Wink
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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 17:59
Yep,but if you cause any trouble,then say goodbye to Bulgaria.Wink
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 17:54
Originally posted by Spartakus

When Bulgaria comes to EU,then of course you can come,but without the same trouble as it is now.The borders,even inside the EU,exist.You cannot just come and go,legally i mean.And Thrace needs no unification.Wink

Of course there will be borders formally, but will be able to cross anywhere you want right?
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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 17:11

When Bulgaria comes to EU,then of course you can come,but without the same trouble as it is now.The borders,even inside the EU,exist.You cannot just come and go,legally i mean.And Thrace needs no unification.Wink
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 16:59
Originally posted by Spartakus

You  only can come through a group for vacation because the border will not open ;)
If Greece obstructs my freedom of movement as an EU citizen, I will definitely sue the hell out of that state. I am sure the border checkpoints will be dissolved after EU membership.
 
Actually I think the border is mined ... I hope they will demine it in time. Thrace is going to be united once again!
 
 
 
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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 16:07
I think the MACEDONIANS feel exploited by Greece, besides what other choice to they have?
 
It's a small sh*thole,they have no choice.Whether it's Hellas or Bulgaria or Albania or USA,they will always have somebody to feel exploited from.
 
I want Greece to open the borders so that I can go to the beach and meet my brothers in Western Thrace ;-) 2007 come faster, the Aegean is awaiting me!
 
You  only can come through a group for vacation because the border will not open ;)
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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 16:07
There are two competing projects, one of which is gaining popularity although they are both fraught with instabilities:
The AMBO pipeline project and the Baku-Ceyhan pipeline project. In my opinion , the latter is still uncertain-despite the recent visible movements. However, the AMBO project will very likely go ahead with considerable financing by Western interests, unless the Bourgas-Alexandroupolis project begins in earnest even the Bulgarian (after the Rice visit) make steps backward.
 
Investors and oil companies want three things in the new "energy" era of alternative sources of oil:
 
1)Accessibility. Alexandroupolis  sea port are very accessible to international markets and despite the pessimists, any marine/civil engineer will demonstrate the feasibility of VLCC super-tanker facilities off Alexandroupolis and of course one from  the biggest merchandise fleet in the wold .
 
2)Route length.The Bourgas-Alexandroupoulis transit is very short compared to the other proposed transit routes
 
3)Geopolitical stability.Pipelines through Bulgaria and Greece are geopolitically very stable given the absence of autonomist movements.
 
As I said investors wanted the mentioned factors  but the two major  global energical sites want to play theirs plans. I also just remnind you the recent energy agreement between Germany and Russia that make nervous the superpower.


Edited by akritas - 18-May-2006 at 16:12
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 16:00
Originally posted by Spartakus

I have also talked to F.Y.R.O.M.I.A.N.S ....
Exploitation?Bullshiet!Do you know how many Hellens were left unemployed so your fellow Fyromians and Bulgarians have some job and bread in their table?Of course you do not.
 
I think the MACEDONIANS feel exploited by Greece, besides what other choice to they have? Their only port and opening to the world is Thessaloniki in Greece.
 
 
And they should say thank you ,because they even have a bloody job.In the borders of Bulgaria,people ask to open the border in order to come Hellas,so they can improve their standard of living.
 
I want Greece to open the borders so that I can go to the beach and meet my brothers in Western Thrace ;-) 2007 come faster, the Aegean is awaiting me!


Edited by bg_turk - 18-May-2006 at 16:01
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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 15:53
Yeah,evil Hellas is responsible for every damn Balkanic Incompetence.We did nothing ,and we are being accursed for everything!LOL .I have also talked to F.Y.R.O.M.I.A.N.S ....
Exploitation?Bullshiet!Do you know how many Hellens were left unemployed so your fellow Fyromians and Bulgarians have some job and bread in their table?Of course you do not.And they should say thank you ,because they even have a bloody job.In the borders of Bulgaria,people ask to open the border in order to come Hellas,so they can improve their standard of living.
 
Greece would see Macedonia torn apart at the first opportunity.
You need to learn more about geopolitics my friend.If FYROM tears apart,then it will create a great instability in our Northren Border.And no logical State like Hellas wants that.The Hellenic State invests so the Balkanians be able to improve their standard of living.Poor Balkans,means highly unstable Balkans.Nobody wants unstable Balkans.And the Hellenic State is the only one which actually support that small sh*thole called FYROM in the Center of Balkans.The other Balkanic countries,which border FYROM, would definently want it to be teared apart,so they can claim territories.
 
A Greek firm has just opened a sweatshop in my town too, Southern Bulgaria, exploiting workers. A relative of mine works there, and she hasn't been paid for several months now. You really call this prosperity?
 
Don't blame Hellas,blame Capitalism.Every major company would treat them in the same way.Just because is Hellenic,it does not mean it's Hellas's fault.And it is not Hellas's fault whether Balkanic countries,after 10 years ,cannot guarantee prosperity for  their people.
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