Saladin

Salah al Din was born in Tikrit (ironically the same hometown of Saddam) in modern Iraq. He was born into a Kurdish family so he was in fact, an ethnic Kurd.

But this fact has been overplayed. The moslem world at the time was not very ethnic conscious, and individual ethnic identities were constantly changing. As long as one was a Moslem and learned Arabic or any language of a ruling elite, they would've easily entered the establishment of any major Middle Eastern Islamic dynasty.

cheapfujianese wrote:

Salah al Din was born in Tikrit (ironically the same hometown of Saddam) in modern Iraq. He was born into a Kurdish family so he was in fact, an ethnic Kurd.

But this fact has been overplayed. The moslem world he time was not very ethnic conscious, and individual ethnic identities were constantly changing. As long as one was a Moslem and learned Arabic or any language of a ruling elite, they would've easily entered the establishment of any major Middle Eastern Islamic dynasty.

Quote :

The moslem world at the time was not very ethnic conscious, and individual ethnic identities were constantly changing.

I don't know where you read that and how you draw your conslusion , but it has nothing to do with real life, facts. The post you have is ignorant.  

The moslem World was very conscious over diffrent ethnic grops. For exmaple or as many know the political power has inhands of different turkic tribes and people all the way from Egypt to Central Asia and India,

To give the common people at that time why the turk did have such politicalpower is explained that they belonged to another race, ethnic identit by moslem historian writes and intulletuals  , (I am not going to get in any detaljs at this post )

The Koran didn't give any way to chavunisitic thoughts ( and still isn't , the black , the arab, the pakistani, the central asia people ,turks of turkey and all the way to indonesia and the people in the BALKAN who are moslem are considered as moslem and shouldbe tread as eqauls , from the point of view by those who calls themslevs muslim and by fundatmental islamic grops  ,   

In medivel times  the moslem where considered to be a Millet, A religious group, but still they where very consius about their ethinc character because it affateced their world and other parts of the world  , ( I'm am talking abot the rulers)

You wrote :

and individual ethnic identities were constantly changing.

Thats wrong ,  the changing of ethinc was dude to the expansion of different empires, but some of whose where in in a much smallare scale which didn't effect the moslem world so that it lost its silkroad bussienss to the europeans  after gengiz khan and timur lenk,  jengiz khan , and timur lenk made large ethinc changes dude to the   ECONIMICAL , POILITICAL AND MILITARY    vacant space, void  that their conquets created ,  , the ECONIMIC , POLITICAL AND MILITARY  vacant space / void  made it later possoble for the europeans to take the lead over teh silkroad throught the seas   and create famous Epoc snd culture , political , art high develpment called the reniacce,  and later in th 16 centry develpe into what was to became the modern times as we are living in today   .  It was dude to the   econmical , political, military  void/ vacant space in moslem world who changed the ethinc identies , they where not changing constantly  

You wrote:

As long as one was a Moslem and learned Arabic or any language of a ruling elite, they would've easily entered the establishment of any major Middle Eastern Islamic dynasty.

Where did you get this from, ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Please can you get more information about the condiotions in medviel moslem world, 

No you couldn't easly enter the established of any major middle Eastern Islamic Dynasty,, thats nonsense /

The ruling elite of the moslem world  consitied dating from the abbasid time of central asian turks, ( with a few other shorter ethnic rulers as well) but  with the  very dominating central asian turks.  ANYWAY to expalin all that would take a long time,  if I refering to Saladin as one who  "

As long as one was a Moslem and learned Arabic or any language of a ruling elite, they would've easily entered the establishment of any major Middle Eastern Islamic dynasty.  " then you are way out of your leage.   

I can explain saladin as a kurd getting the political power.

After the Great  Seljuk empire collapsed , it emerged  small kingdoms called atabegs, a contuing of the seljuk empire in small independet kingdomsm called the post-seljuk period.  After the slejku empire collapsed , it split apart to small kingdoms, one of the larger ones whas the Khwarazm shah , any way , these Ategs would aften rule a merchant city and its surroundings , it was small still engogh to keep the silkroad . One of the Atabegs who where the lord of the Mosul the city of northern Iraq, Zangi/ Zengi atabeg. Atabeg Zangi was in a river or some place outside mosul. His live has endangerd by something or the someone I don't remember ,( the endangerd thing wasn�t described)  Anyway Zangi was saved by AYYUB  AYYUB SAVED ZANGI ATABGES LIVE) , AYYUB WAS SALADINS GRANDFATHER

MAYBE YOU COULD GUESS NOW HOW IT DEVELPOED LATER ON WIHTOUT READING THE TEXT BELOW,   ,

Any way ZANGI FELT AN GREAT  gratitude  towards AYYUB who saved his live.  tO SHOW HIS APPPRICATION, He let his son ( SALADISN FATHER , SHARUKIN , IF I REMEBER TEH NAME RIGHT) to get to a special post-seljuk education in military and state affaris that only the majestics or the ruling class whould get, ( atabegs family and the high ranked generals of the court) Saladins father actually where raised/ brote up as a central asian ruler/warrior , during atabegs many campigsnagainst the crusaides , sharukin got higher in the grades adn showed himself   A SKILFULL GENERAL BECASUE OF HIS SPECIAL EDUCATION. FINALLY HE WAS IN CHARGE OF THE SECOND ARMY OF ZANGI ATABEG, THAT WILL SAY , HE BECAME HIGH RANKED GENERAL OF THE COURT,    ZANGI ATABEGS ARMY WAS DIVIEDINTO TWO PARTS THE MAIN ARMY THAT HE HIMSLEF WAS LEADING AND THE OTHER ARMY THAT SALADINS FATHER SHARUKIN WHERE LEADING,

I think you got it know , Saladin met the same fate as his father, and gota special traing only for the ruling class ( you know central asian tactics and ghulam tactics)  , Saladin became a commander under his father army ,

Znagi atabegs campaignes against the crudesaders started a new crusead into the "holy land" , know Zangi atabegs son , Nur ad din was in charge , to better deal with the the europeans he gave Sharukin a semi-independet role ,  Sharukin beacame now a vassal to Nur ad din atabeg, sharukin got lands to rule and after his death saladin became the second armys commander and vassal to nur ad din , saladin rule in egypt if I remember right and som other places. one day Nur ad din tryd to call him for help / or demandeD  his obedience ,  but saladin refues and sat in egpyt doing nothing while nur ad din fought against the crudsedars,  ( IF i remember right,)  LATER NUR AD DIN DIED NATURL DEATH AND THOUGHT  THAT THERE WAS nobody TO TAKE AFTER HUR AD DIN , SALADIN WNET WITH HIS ARMY CONSISTING OF POST-SELJKU INTO NUR AD DIN FORMER LANDS ( THE HOLY LAND ) AND toke it under his own kingdom,  puuhhh,  I am tired now,  I think you got it    

The ruling elite of the moslem wold form the abbasid to the early 20 cenrty was controlled and ruled by different turkic people ,8 with some shorter period of other ethnic as well9  and not by others, it was domianalty , I

 ( I can explain the connection between the central asian turks and abbasid if you want it   

I thin kI have given you an answer now,   could you please enlighten me and others how   "

But this fact has been overplayed. The moslem world at the time was not very ethnic conscious, and individual ethnic identities were constantly changing. As long as one was a Moslem and learned Arabic or any language of a ruling elite, they would've easily entered the establishment of any major Middle Eastern Islamic dynasty.  " could  it be possible,  can you specife, I don't think you will find any thiing    

 I hope you wan't get upset by my many glance ( I mean, when I am doing this  

Regards BK