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dirtnap
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Topic: The Impossibility of God? Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 11:28 |
This thread grows more juvenile by the second. Now you have conjured up a way to bring ta ta taxes into the equation. Well, dig your trenches and good luck with that...
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Vivek Sharma
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Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 02:33 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Put a can on it Vivek. No-one is going to be converted to bigotry either.
Anyone who converts because they want to pay a bit less tax is truely a sad person indeed.
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You are right Omar, but think from the point of view of a poor person for whom life is a daily struggle for existence, trying to make the ends meet. Hunger can be stronger than faith. And more so for a polythiestic person. He already has so many Gods, what does it matter for him if by worshipping yet another god makes his family's stomachs full, lives happier. I would do the same thing if presented with no choice.
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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MidEast_Beast
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Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 01:09 |
Very well put, very informational.
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Terrorists are those who create terror...
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MidEast_Beast
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Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 01:07 |
Say we find out FOR SURE- that God exists... If he is actually responsible for HALF the things he gets credit for... well, then hes gota be one MEAN sonovabitch!!!!
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Terrorists are those who create terror...
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Cezar
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Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 06:32 |
Seems to me that whenever people start talking about God(s) they end up talking about religion. If God=Religion then there's a lot of Gods around. Too bad none of them seem to be (fully) functional.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 03:45 |
Put a can on it Vivek. No-one is going to be converted to bigotry either.
Anyone who converts because they want to pay a bit less tax is truely a sad person indeed.
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Vivek Sharma
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Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 03:35 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
[quote]
Its also futile. As no-one is going to be swayed from their religion by someone else. If people change their religion they do so for their own reasons.
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They are also made to do it under force. For example you are given two choices die or convert to Muslim. Or by induced choice for monetary or other reasons : In India the muslim emperors used to lay a religion tax called Jajiya. If you wanted to follow any religion other than Muslim, you had to pay this tax, in addition to the normal tax, which was one third of your income. Payment of the universal tax plus the religion tax left very little in the hands of poor people. Then their was this criminal justice system, where if a non muslim did a crime, one way for him to escape was to convert to muslim & he would be pardoned. So a lot of criminals chose to convert. Then there is direct monetary incentive. for example at many places in tribal India, the christian missionaries have these schemes where they will look after your child's expenses if you convert to christian.
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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Cezar
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Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 03:28 |
And there's no fun in a society that is made by individuals that think and behave as one . Maybe termites or ants have another idea...
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 03:05 |
What is gained from trying to disprove someones faith? Is it not
presumptuous to suggest someone is wrong for following their heart?
Having faith is no more wrong than not having it. |
Its also futile. As no-one is going to be swayed from their religion by someone else. If people change their religion they do so for their own reasons.
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dirtnap
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Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 02:28 |
What is gained from trying to disprove someones faith? Is it not presumptuous to suggest someone is wrong for following their heart? Having faith is no more wrong than not having it.
I'm agnostic and publicly maintain respect and tolerance for all religion. It seems negative to be any other way.
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Emperor Barbarossa
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 16:02 |
Originally posted by Chilbudios
VERY wrong, it is an accepted fact that polytheistic religions are tolerant, exactly because they're polytheistic, they always have space for one more god! | There's one subtle difference between orthodoxy and orthopraxy, and of course between enforcing one or another. Being polytheist doesn't necessarily adds tolerance. Read the links I added, read the laws and forbiddings in the Ancient World, starting with the mythical dimension of Pentheus attempting to stop Dionysos' cult (probably having a factual basis from the unrecorded history of the Balkans/Greece) and reaching the Hellenistic Kingdoms and the Roman world. |
Ever hear of the mass murders of Christians by the polytheistic Japanese at times?
Originally posted by Cezar
Hi Fogger, welcome to AE!
You are an atheist and you are looking for a consistent God?
So, you limit existence to an instance where no consistent God
exists. Therefore if no consistent God exists => no God exists?
How about a non consitent God that exists? If so, your "why..."
questions would have an answer ("because" should suffice for all).
Non consistency is not a proof all by itself. |
This
sometimes occurs in atheistic thought, that just becase the Abrahamic
god is inconsistent means there is no creator. Just because the
religions are wrong about their gods in no way means that there cannot
be a creator.
Edited by Emperor Barbarossa - 03-Oct-2006 at 16:08
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Greek Hoplite
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 11:35 |
Originally posted by fogger
If there is a god, then why is he isolated in selected areas? Isnt he/she/it powerful enough to show the right path to him/her/it to all? . |
What do you mean by saying isolated?God is everywhere not only in earth but and in universe.If you mean the word of God , the apostoles took this mission , and also today there are apostoles who try to spead the word of God. If you mean why the Son of God lived, crucified, and ressurected in Palestine, better to ask God.
Originally posted by fogger
Why is there multiple beliefs? Why can't there be a single one? If god created the first man, surely he/she/it would teach his/her/its creation to believe and follow his/her/its teching, . |
God gave people the freedom to believe in Him or in false gods.God does not want people to belive in Him, because He just pressures people .God wants people to believe in Him because their hearts tell them to believe
Originally posted by fogger
If god loves us, then why would he call early scientists and thinkers as demons <christian faith> why cant he just show the things we have now <computer, TV> a little bit earlier, in that way he/she/it can really help us . |
God gave man brain to make his life easier
Originally posted by fogger
It seems that the christian god created everything in the 1st century, His world started with lions, singing birds, and Adam. But radioactive dating doesnt show Lions, Birds, Adam but instead Dinosaurs and stuff. Whatever happened to gods creation? , |
If you read Genesis,the order that God create the world, has many similar elements with Bin Bang.First God create the universe , the the stars etc
To Epicourios:
Do you know the nationality of the Christians that persecuted Hellenes and destroyed their temples ?
Edited by Greek Hoplite - 03-Oct-2006 at 11:41
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Cezar
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 06:26 |
Hi Fogger, welcome to AE!
You are an atheist and you are looking for a consistent God?
So, you limit existence to an instance where no consistent God exists. Therefore if no consistent God exists => no God exists?
How about a non consitent God that exists? If so, your "why..." questions would have an answer ("because" should suffice for all).
Non consistency is not a proof all by itself.
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Guests
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 05:21 |
As an atheist, im inclined to say there is no God.
Why?
P.S. I dont know a lot about other faith/beleif other than christian <I used to be one>
If there is a god, then why is he isolated in selected areas? Isnt he/she/it powerful enough to show the right path to him/her/it to all?
Why is there multiple beliefs? Why can't there be a single one? If god created the first man, surely he/she/it would teach his/her/its creation to believe and follow his/her/its teching, using this thought that since every generation follows the previous generations understandings, then, no new religion would be created, so all of us would be under one true religion, but no, either man created god or..........<cant think of other explanation>
If god loves us, then why would he call early scientists and thinkers as demons <christian faith> why cant he just show the things we have now <computer, TV> a little bit earlier, in that way he/she/it can really help us
It seems that the christian god created everything in the 1st century, His world started with lions, singing birds, and Adam. But radioactive dating doesnt show Lions, Birds, Adam but instead Dinosaurs and stuff. Whatever happened to gods creation?
Ok ill stop for now,
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Vivek Sharma
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 04:02 |
Originally posted by Yiannis
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
I will also point out, that it is a fact that polytheistic religions are not more tolerant than monotheistic |
VERY wrong, it is an accepted fact that polytheistic religions are tolerant, exactly because they're polytheistic, they always have space for one more god! What they detest is someone preaching the absence of God, otherwise they can follow up the needs of their era and add gods to their religion (e.g. deified Roman emperors or the Greeks deifing Heroes).
Look at the first couple of centuries after the death of Jesus Christ. We have religions like the 12 gods of the GrecoRomans, Cybele, Mithra, what was the other Egyptian goddess that we also find temples of her in Greece?, and other minor religions all co-existing.
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Yiannis is right. In India we have so many Indian's worshipping the gods fo christianity & Muslim without them being a part of those religions. Omar, Please show how the Muslim conquest stopped the so called prosecution of Buddhists. Nobody opposed the Buddhists except the Brahamins who were replaced by new courtesans now. It was a truggle of economic existence for the Brahamins, who did'nt have anything else to do except work for the ruling elite.
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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Ashod
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 03:39 |
imo the problem is that all of society confuses "god" and religion. God as we think of it is an alien, be it our form or something else that we cant define. Whether we were directly created becasue of it is up for debate, but even still indirectly there was something that created exsistance ( the universe).
There are tons and tons of other planets out there, so to think that we are so special and that religion is right, is not only selfish it is stupid, imo... Personally I think religion ( all of them) i are nothing more than the greatest marketing schemes of all times.
proof.. Santa Clause is nothign more than a marketing scheme Coca Cola invented many years ago. Why do you think his colors are white and red. Kids through constant visual/audio bombardment until they are old enough are brought up to think Santa is real, when in fact he is not.
Now please dont confuse this with Chris Cringle or Saint Nicholas. They were real but they have their own stories which Coca Cola took to create the background of Santa.
My point is if you flood people with an idea sooner or later they will believe it and thats what happend with the various religions, and thats why a higher power is used as various poster boys through out different parts of the world...
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 23:38 |
There is a small fact everyone that compares monotheism with
polytheism, on the grounds of intolerance, is overlooking. Polytheistic
religions did not establish as the main dogma and goal of their belief
the total destruction of monotheism as the two monotheistic religions
(judeo-christianity & judeo-islam) have done with polytheism! (Read
your holy books). |
VERY wrong, it is an accepted fact that polytheistic religions are tolerant, exactly because they're polytheistic, they always have space for one more god! What they detest is someone preaching the absence
of God, otherwise they can follow up the needs of their era and add
gods to their religion (e.g. deified Roman emperors or the Greeks
deifing Heroes). |
Don't be ridiculous. Polythiestic religions have frequently tried to stamp out other religions (regardless of their view on thiesm). Chilbudios examples are good, but if you want to open your eyes and look a todays world you could do that too. Polytheism isn't exitinct, its alive and well in India. If you wish to see examples of polytheistic intolerance, do a search for the posts of (now banned) members Rajput and Digvijay. Why don't you look at the early history of Christianity? or Islam? or Buddhism. Many Hindu governments attempted to stamp out all buddhism under their governence for the whole period that buddhists and hindus were living side-by-side. The only thing that stopped it was muslim conquest.
When Great Alexander invaded Asia, he didn't have preachers and
missionaries with him in order to impose to the Asians the dogma
of Zeus. |
Yes, he did. How do you think the northern Pakistanis became part of the Greek religion? Due to the encoragement of Hellenistic ideals after Alexanders conquests. Intolerance is not a religious trait. It is a personal trait.
Edited by Omar al Hashim - 02-Oct-2006 at 23:41
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Chilbudios
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Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 09:09 |
VERY wrong, it is an accepted fact that polytheistic religions are tolerant, exactly because they're polytheistic, they always have space for one more god! |
There's one subtle difference between orthodoxy and orthopraxy, and of course between enforcing one or another. Being polytheist doesn't necessarily adds tolerance. Read the links I added, read the laws and forbiddings in the Ancient World, starting with the mythical dimension of Pentheus attempting to stop Dionysos' cult (probably having a factual basis from the unrecorded history of the Balkans/Greece) and reaching the Hellenistic Kingdoms and the Roman world.
Edited by Chilbudios - 02-Oct-2006 at 09:13
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Yiannis
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Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 08:46 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
I will also point out, that it is a fact that polytheistic religions are not more tolerant than monotheistic |
VERY wrong, it is an accepted fact that polytheistic religions are tolerant, exactly because they're polytheistic, they always have space for one more god! What they detest is someone preaching the absence of God, otherwise they can follow up the needs of their era and add gods to their religion (e.g. deified Roman emperors or the Greeks deifing Heroes).
Look at the first couple of centuries after the death of Jesus Christ. We have religions like the 12 gods of the GrecoRomans, Cybele, Mithra, what was the other Egyptian goddess that we also find temples of her in Greece?, and other minor religions all co-existing.
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Epikoureios
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Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 07:25 |
There is a small fact everyone that compares monotheism with polytheism, on the grounds of intolerance, is overlooking. Polytheistic religions did not establish as the main dogma and goal of their belief the total destruction of monotheism as the two monotheistic religions (judeo-christianity & judeo-islam) have done with polytheism! (Read your holy books).
When Great Alexander invaded Asia, he didn't have preachers and missionaries with him in order to impose to the Asians the dogma of Zeus.
Excactly the opposite happened about 400 years later with the appearance of Paul Spermologos. Sometimes propaganda is stronger than the mightiest army in the world!
As a citizen of the world I am concerned when a religion, that tries to sell itself as the religion of love, the religion of truth, the religion of tolerance, at the same time it commits the most dispeakable crimes against humanity and anyone who believed differently ...in the name of its god, the god of love, the god of truth etc.
In the NT and in the book of Luke, chapter 19, paragraph 27 there is a little revelation that I am sure most of you have not come across or have paid much attention.
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (KJV) These are the words of Jesus and as a free thinking citizen of the world I have a problem with words of intolerance spoken by the champion of love and truth and tolerance. Unless...
Edited by Epikoureios - 02-Oct-2006 at 08:28
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"Λάθε Βιώσας"
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