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Topic ClosedThe Secret History of the Mongols

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SaikhaNBayar View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Secret History of the Mongols
    Posted: 09-May-2006 at 10:48
You can read the book chapter by chapter here....



English http://www.magicnet.mn/~altan/secret%20history1.htm

Espanol? Spainish? (not sure)http://www.magicnet.mn/~altan/esperanto%20index.htm

Mongolian (cyrillic)http://www.magicnet.mn/~altan/monindex.htm

Edited by cattus
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2006 at 02:34

 

Or you can read it in Hungarian:

http://www.terebess.hu/keletkultinfo/titkos.html

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2006 at 02:51

Thank you for this precious address

May I ask you if you can help me: I like to know how the Mongolian of the conquest measured the time (the hours, the days, the months, the years), and the space (short and long distances)?>>

That does already a moment that I look for it without success.>>

> >

Till then, bye

 

>>



Edited by Stiopa
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2006 at 09:44

That's not very comprehensive though. It's a very abbreviated version.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2006 at 18:57

Russian translation:

http://steppe.konvent.ru/books/ss-00.shtml

BTW. Intersting and strange - all the "Mongols" of Genghis Khan were then and are now Turkic speakers. Kereits, Naimans, Jalairs, Qongyrats today are parts of modern Kazakhs (see www.elim.kz). All the geographic names were Turkic then, and today they all are Khalkha-Mongolian.  

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 00:10

 

Not again Akskl. Give your solid proofs to claim "all" Mongols at that period to be Turkic, rather than repeating same sentence time and again.

BTW, I'm just questioning your "all".

 

 

 

Either make a history or become a history.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 10:07

Well it's not really that strange that so many Turkic names show up in the Secret History. Up until that point all of the major powers on the steppe had been Turkic. And Turkic culture was still very dominant. The Mongolian people saw the Turks as their elder cousins and borrowed many aspects of the Turkic language and culture, but they also had their own culture too. So it's not really accurate to say the steppe was entirely Turkic back then.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2006 at 15:51
Originally posted by Stiopa

Thank you for this precious address

May I ask you if you can help me: I like to know how the Mongolian of the conquest measured the time (the hours, the days, the months, the years), and the space (short and long distances)?>>

That does already a moment that I look for it without success.>>

> >

Till then, bye

 

>>

 

 

**Unfortunately I had to edit most of this post since it contains a foreign language. In order to avoid a deletion in the future either write in english or present your post in the appropriate non-english forum.** - Seko

 

 



Edited by Seko
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 00:49
Rene Grousset "Empire of the Steppes" Rutgers University Press :
p.191 "The Kerayit people are usually considered as Turks. " The legend of Mongol origins leaves no room for them, and it is hard to say whether the Kerayit were Mongols who had been strongly influenced by the Turks , or Turks, who were becoming Mongolized. In any event, many Kerayit titles were Turkic, and Togrul is a Turkic rather than a Mongol name"

Introduction:

p.xxiv (13th line from bottom):
"...the Kerayit or Naimans, presumably Turkic, in the twelfth (century)..."

p.xxv (4 line from the top):
"...Nevertheless, history tells us that in Mongolia itself the Jenghis-Khanites mongolized many apparently Turkic tribes: the Naimans of the Altai, the Kerayits of the Gobi, and the Onguts of Chahar. Before the unification under Jenghis Khan which brought all these tribes under the Blue Mongols, part of present day Mongolia was Turkic; indeed even now a Turkic people, the Yakut, occupy northeastern Siberia, north of the Tungus, in Lene, Indigirka, and Kolyma basins. The presense of this Turkic group so near Bering Strait, north of the Mongols and even of the Tungus on the Arctic Ocean, neccesitates caution in attempts to determine the relative position of the "first" Turks, Mongols, and Tungus..."

Kereits were Turks in 1000's when they were baptized. See for example:

http://www.nestorian.org/nestorian_timeline.html

1007-1008 Conversion of 200,000 Kerait Turks

http://www.oxuscom.com/timeline.htm

1007-1008 Conversion of 200,000 Kerait Turks to Nestorian Christianity

http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=1553&am p;am p;am p;am p;C=1362


There were Nestorian missionary activities further to the northeast, toward Lake Baikal. During the 10th and 11th centuries, several Tartar tribes were entirely or to a great extent Christian, notably the Keraits, Uighurs, Naimans and Merkits.
Keraits were a Turko-Mongolian tribe. The Kerait capital at this time was Karakoram, where Marco Polo found a church. They were a cluster of hunting tribes east and south of Lake Baikal. The principal tribes evangelized there by the Nestorians were the Naiman, the Merkit and the Kerait. It seems that the Gospel was taken to those tribes by Christian merchants. An account of the conversion of the Keraits is given by the thirteenth century Jacobite historian Gregory Bar Hebraeus. According to Hebraeus, at the beginning of the eleventh century, a king of the Keraits lost his way while hunting in the high mountains. When he had abandoned all hope, a saint appeared in a vision and said, "If you will believe in Christ I will lead you lest you perish." He returned home safely. He remembered the vision when he met some Christian merchants. He inquired of them of their faith. At their suggestion he sent a message to the Metropolitan of Merv for priests and deacons to baptize him and his tribe. As a result of the mission that followed, the Kerait prince and two hundred thousand of his people accepted baptism. (R. Grousset, The Empire of the Steppes, New Brunswick, NJ, Rutgers University Press, 1970, p. 191. See also Moffett, A History of Christianity in Asia pp. 400-401.)



IGOR DE RACHEWILTZ, Turks in China under the Mongols: A Preliminary Investigation of Turco-Mongol Relations in the 13th and 14th Century, in: CHINA AMONG EQUALS - THE MIDDLE KINGDOM AND ITS NEIGHBORS, 10th - 14th CENTURIES, EDITED BY MORRIS ROSSABI, Chapter 10, University of California Press - Berkeley - Los Angeles London, pp.281-310.

...We must not forget also that, as a young man and for many years, Chinggis Khan had been a client and an ally of the Kereyid court, and that he must inevitably have been exposed to Turkish culture through this close association. It is perhaps not fortuitous that the very title he assumed, Chinggis Khan, is of Turkish origin [8]...

http://www.kyrgyz.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=263
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 11:08

Aksakal is quite right when talking about those tribes and their language. I've also asked Hazaras of Iran wich are told to be descendant of Mongols (their origin is from Afghani Hazaras; they just live in Iran). The surprising thing is that they belive the language their ancestors spoke, was Turkic and not Mongolian. But we need more proof. It's not that easy. One can ask like this: 'if they were Turkic and Turkic speakers, so how do you explian the Mongolian language and words in certain places in Afghanistan?'.

 

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 11:25

 

There surely were many Turkic tribes in the steppe during Chengiz period, such as Naiman, Kireyit, Qongrat etc. But not all of them were Turkic. Chengiz surely belonged to Mongolic tribe. They might have become Turkic afterwards, but the fact is that they were mongolic back then. 

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 11:34

Well, when talking about the process Chengiz Qaan went through to control Mongolia, they are called his allies. Those tribes AkSakal mention are all Turkic; they were also Turkic in the time of Great Qaan. Anyhow, I think you're right. I'm not trying to relate ourselves to Mongols.

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 11:40

let me tell you of my own research. According to my conclusion, Turks & Mongols were very very close to each other; can't even imagine that much certain difference. 

But the present day Mongols are a combination of Manchu-Tungusic people and a percentage of old so-called 'Mongols'.

Anyhow, this is just my own point of view and needs more study and time.



Edited by gok_toruk
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 11:49
Here's another abbreviated version:

http://www.allempires.com/article/index.php?q=rise_of_genghi s_khan

let me tell you of my own research. According to my conclusion, Turks & Mongols were very very close to each other; can't even imagine that much certain difference.


Yes they were very closely related to each other. Most of the purpose in making a differentiation between them on this board are nationalistic or silly.


Edited by Imperator Invictus
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 15:54

Hello!

Someone could tell when the brothers of Temujin or Genghis Khan passed away?

I have this names: Qasar; Belgutei; Qaciun and Temuge.

Also i would like to know more about is elder son, Joti, because i have the impression that he passed away before is father.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2006 at 23:03

Turks and Mongols are having the same root, that is true. But these two are branches of Altaic nation. If we want to give a name to our nation, it is Altaic.

Since, ethnical difference between turks and Mongols started in 1800s.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2006 at 00:57
Originally posted by Semis of Arierep

Hello!

Someone could tell when the brothers of Temujin or Genghis Khan passed away?

I have this names: Qasar; Belgutei; Qaciun and Temuge.

Also i would like to know more about is elder son, Joti, because i have the impression that he passed away before is father.

 

Temujin's youngest brother Temuge lived to be an old man. He was executed sometime in the early 1240's when he tried to seize the throne after Ogedai Khan's death. Belgutai, Temujin's half-brother, also lived to a very old age. He was still alive when Mongke Khan was enthroned in 1251, and some sources say he died in 1255. Another half-brother, Bekter, was killed by Temujin in childhood. I don't know when the other brothers Jochi Khasar and Kachi'un died. 

And yes, Temujin's eldest son Jochi did die a few months before his father. The two were on very tense terms and it is suspected by some that Jochi was assasinated. But there's no proof of this.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2006 at 14:54

Originally posted by Snafu

I don't know when the other brothers Jochi Khasar and Kachi'un died.

Khachiun died in the battle against Naiman.  I don't know when Khasar died.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2006 at 22:49

Originally posted by Imperator Invictus


Yes they were very closely related to each other. Most of the purpose in making a differentiation between them on this board are nationalistic or silly.


The differenciations were made by historical facts. Actually someone who is claiming Mongols as Turkic are nationalistic or silly.

BTW, they did closely related, Turkic people mixed with Tungustic people, and vice versa.  Mongols are Tungustic people with strong Turkic influence. 

 

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 05:48

Thank you Zorigo ta have respond on my request, but unfortunately, I cant read your message, who appears with this kind of lettre:   

 

Is it possible to send back your message.

 

Thank you

 

Stiopa

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