The Secret History of the Mongols

Originally posted by Akskl Xi tujue, please don't use your "intuition" instead of information. Similar discussion was here: Genghis Khan wasn't a Khalkha Mongol http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/lofiversion/index.php/t11740.html Borudjin, be more courteous and serious, please.

Xi tujue, please don't use your "intuition" instead of information.

Similar discussion was here: Genghis Khan wasn't a Khalkha Mongol

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/lofiversion/index.php/t11740.html

Borudjin, be more courteous and serious, please.



Edited by Akskl - 08-Nov-2006 at 23:34

Borodjin you are already walking on thin ice.  Either cut the dimwitted comments or you'll find a one way ticket out of here.

Edited by Seko - 08-Nov-2006 at 08:28

 maybe he�s a khalka nationalist pretending to be an uyghur? maybe im a khalka pretending to be a turk so i can manipulate the argument into my interests?

mongol nowadays is a misnomer. before mongol meant part of a turkic peoples and was a tribe that took hegemony over others, and now it means tungusic people who have no proven descent from genghis khan( eg the khalka). the khalka cannot prove descent from the genghizids who were turks.

Askll, if you make another post about of the same nature, you will receive a warning for trolling. This condition extends beyond this thread. Estell has been banned for the previous post.


Edited by Imperator Invictus - 06-Jun-2006 at 00:20

IGOR DE RACHEWILTZ, Turks in China under the Mongols: A Preliminary Investigation of Turco-Mongol Relations in the 13th and 14th Century, in: CHINA AMONG EQUALS - THE MIDDLE KINGDOM AND ITS NEIGHBORS, 10th - 14th CENTURIES, EDITED BY MORRIS ROSSABI, Chapter 10, University of California Press - Berkeley - Los Angeles � London, pp.281-310.

http://www.kyrgyz.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=263

The Turkish peoples that I have surveyed for the present investigation are the following: Uighur, Kharlukh, Khangli, Kipchak, Ongut, Kereyid, Naiman

We must not forget also that, as a young man and for many years, Chinggis Khan had been a client and an ally of the Kereyid court, and that he must inevitably have been exposed to Turkish culture through this close association. It is perhaps not fortuitous that the very title he assumed, Chinggis Khan, is of Turkish origin [8].

To-lo-chu (died before 1260), also from Khocho, who taught the Uighur script to Mongol nobles and also to Khubilai [23].

Of the 5 Naimans, 1 was Batu�s teacher Pai Pu hua (Beg Bukha) [35],

As was mentioned earlier, Khubilai was instructed in Uighur script by To-lo-chu. While still a prince he had as senior secretary Shiban, and among the people who, in one capacity or another, served him in these formative years were Uighurs like Lien Hsi-hsien, Esen Nai, Arigh Khaya, and Meng-su-ssu (Mungsuz).



http://www.uscolo.edu/history/seminar/sauma.htm

YAHBH-ALLAHA ELECTED PATRIARCH

"...The reason for his election was this: The kings who held the steering poles of the government of the whole world were MUGLAYE (Mongols), and there was no man except MAR YAHBH-ALLAHA who was acquainted with their manners and customs, and their policy of government, and their language..."

MAR YAHBH-ALLAHA was Ongut Turk (who  now  are Kazakhs).






Edited by Akskl - 05-Jun-2006 at 22:12

Marco Polo, his father and uncle spoke with Emperor Kublai Khan in Turki language:  

http://www.silk-road.com/artl/marcopolo.shtml

"...The Great Khan, Mangu's brother, Kublai, was indeed hospitable. He had set up his court at Beijing, which was not a Mongol encampment but an impressive city built by Kublai as his new capital after the Mongols took over China in 1264 and established Yuan dynasty (1264-1368). Kublai asked them all about their part of the world, the Pope and the Roman church. Niccolo and Matteo, who spoke Turkic dialects perfectly, answered truthfully and clearly. The Polo brothers were well received in the Great Khan's capital. One year later, the Great Khan sent them on their way with a letter in Turki addressed to Pope Clement IV asking the Pope to send him 100 learned men to teach his people about Christianity and Western science. He also asked Pope to procure oil from the lamp at the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem..."

Rashid-al-Din wrote:
Volume 1, Book 1, Ch.1 of the 4th part

A296
"According to what was wrote up in the Preface to that blessed book, the Mongqol tribes were one of the groups of the general mass of Turkic tribes, their guise and language were similar to each other's. All this people stems from Japhet - the seer Noah's son - peace with him! - who is called Buldja (Abuldja)-Khan and who was the common ancestor of all Turkic tribes..."

A306
"...Burjigin in Turkic means a blue-eyed man."

A8
"...The word Mongqol became name of their clan, and this name (now) is being transferred to other peoples which are similar to the Mongqols, because the generalization of of this name (with other peoples) began since epoch of the Mongqols - and the latter ones are one of the Turkic peoples..."

Edited by Akskl - 03-Jun-2006 at 23:08

Page 241, ref. 577:
"The Ula and the Na'u are the Songari and Na'un (Onon) River..."

Even Onon (i.e. Na'u or Na'un, as we know now) river also was renamed by Khalkha-Mongols?!!

References to the so-called "Orkhon Turkish dialect" in the Urgunge Onon's "Secret History":

72. Tenggis - ocean
79. Soqor - blind
81. Tunggelik or Tonggelik river - means "to flow" or a "wheel" in Kazakh (dongheleg), and not related to "deresu" - "mat-thorn grass" as Urgunge Onon proposes.
82. Alan Qo'a - "Outstanding beauty" in Orkhon Turkish
83. Kol - lake
86.-lar, -nar plural ending inTurkic
125. Shinqor -kind of falcon (Sunqar in Kazakh), bilge -wise, beki - "another Orkhon Turkish title"
128. "Otchigin is a compound of the Orkhon Turkish word ot -"fire" ("ot" in Kazakh -A.)..." " Buri" means "wolf" in the Orkhon Turkish dialect..."
129. "Kishlig ...means "huge", "broad-minded", "boastful" in Orkhon Turkish... "Darqan" translated here as "freedman" is an Orkhon Turkish term ...
131. ...Kolen means large lake in Orkhon Turkish...
141. The text says "older brother" (aqa) (agha in Kazakh - A.)
148. ...the prefix dei-, derived from an Orkhon Turkish word meant "mother's younger brother"...
149. Quda ... page 57: Dei-sechen said: "Yisugei-quda..." (quda means relatives trough marriage in Kazakh, and not derived from "qudaldaqu - to sell", as Urgunge Onon proposes - A.)
156. Monglik meant "mole" (naevus) in Orkhon Turkish...
166. Bekter... derives form the Orkhon Turkish word for armour and military equpment more generally.
170. The word "otermeleju" transllated here as "shot at" derives from the Orkhon Turkish "oter" to beat or to kill (oltir in Kazakh).
207. ...moqariya derives from the Orkhon Turkish mokai, a large male brown bear...
208. Maliyasuqay"sacrifice" was an Orkhon Turkish word...
209. ...yeke maqalay (big hat)... - (malakhay - Turkic word even in Russian - A.)

Enough for today...