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The Greatest of ’Em All: GENERAL Otto Liman Von Sanders

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Otto Liman Von Sanders View Drop Down
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  Quote Otto Liman Von Sanders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Greatest of ’Em All: GENERAL Otto Liman Von Sanders
    Posted: 09-May-2006 at 10:00

In my opinions one of the greatest commanders in history: Otto Liman Von Sanders. He was a German general who served as adviser and military commander for the Ottoman Empire during World War I. Liman had little time to organize the defences but he had two things in his favor: first, the Ottoman 5th Army was the best army they had, some 84,000 well equipped soldiers in six divisions. Secondly he was helped by poor Allied leadership. Instead of using their massive fleet to force a passage through the straits to Istanbul, the British and French admirals called for ground troops to capture the Dardenells peninsula so their battleships could sail on into the unmolested. Liman had just over a month to prepare, then on April 23, 1915 the British landed a major force at Cape Helles. One of Liman's best decisions during this time was to promote Mustafa Kemal (later known as Ataturk) to the role of division commander of the 19th division. Kemal's 19th division litterally saved the day for the Ottomans as his troops marched up on the day of the invasion and occupied the ridgeline above the ANZAC landing site. They did this just as the ANZAC troops were moving up the slope themselves. Kemal recognized the danger and personally made sure his troops held the ridge line. A great day for Turks, thanks to general Von Sanders.

for more information about the great general Sanders: Here

Now, what do you think about Sanders? Is he, in your opinion, the greatest general ever? the best commander ever?

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Richard XIII View Drop Down
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  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 10:41
No
"I want to know God's thoughts...
...the rest are details."

Albert Einstein
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erkut View Drop Down
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  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2006 at 11:40

Ofcourse no. Atatrk was better then him.

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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2006 at 08:07
I disagree...if the Ottomans had lost  the  battle of Galipoli you would have no Ataturk.
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2006 at 15:21
Hi,


I am sorry the best german general in WWI is Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck
(1870-1964). One of the commanders of the Bejing expedition in 1900
and was one of the last to surrunder the 27th of November 1918 as the
head of the German East African Schutzgruppe. He had been fighting with
any help for over four years against much bigger English-French-Belgian-
Portugese troops but was impossible to catch with his black-white
soldiers.

Also, concidering French, Italian and English general were such stupid
murderers I think they can be reckognized as obvious allies of the Kaiser

M.
I am a free donkey!
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Kapikulu View Drop Down
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2006 at 08:10
Originally posted by mamikon

I disagree...if the Ottomans had lost  the  battle of Galipoli you would have no Ataturk.
 
The real reason of victories in Gallipoli was not really Liman von Sanders' brilliance, but the masterminds of Ottoman officers(not only Mustafa Kemal Pasha) and bravery of soldiers in addition to the defensive&strategical advantage.
 
I don't say he wasn't a good general, but his role is definitely exaggerated in this thread
 
Originally posted by Maharbbal

I am sorry the best german general in WWI is Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck
(1870-1964). One of the commanders of the Bejing expedition in 1900
and was one of the last to surrunder the 27th of November 1918 as the
head of the German East African Schutzgruppe. He had been fighting with
any help for over four years against much bigger English-French-Belgian-
Portugese troops but was impossible to catch with his black-white
soldiers.
 
I definitely admire this man, he is the real Desert& Jungle FoxSmile
 
One of the best generals in the history who detained Entente forces in Africa for 4 years, providing his supplies from Portuguese outposts, and he had been successful against an army 4-5 times larger than his own army..
 
And yes, he didn't surrender till the war had ended, set all Tanzania&Mozambique at loggerheadsSmile


Edited by Kapikulu - 17-May-2006 at 08:11
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Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

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Battle_Hymn View Drop Down
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  Quote Battle_Hymn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 16:26
Lets Check What Liman Pasha sayin about Mustafa Kemal Atatrk
 
....Mustafa Kemal wasnt General yet.He was calm,energetic and clever soldier.He was doin everything very well.He wasnt speakin very much and he was sayin ALWAYS truth.He had strong body but he wasnt lookin very strong.He was controlin himself very well and his army too..
 
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk changed our destiny with 57. regiment at Gallipoli..
 
@mamikon
 
After Sevres who started to Big Defence at 19 May 1919.. ?


Edited by Battle_Hymn - 08-Jun-2006 at 16:27

This nation has never lived without independence. We cannot and shall not live without it. Either independence or death.
Ataturk

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 06:06

1-von Sanders was not a great General for Turks. He was a great general for Germans. He realized German desires very good by keeping 250000 or more British and French away from West front where Germans had trouble in Gallipoli.

2-Von Sanders was not a great General.  His decision to hold the landing British and French on shore was wrong. On the other hand Turkish commanders wanted to stop the landing on the sea. von sanders desicion costed tenthousands of deat Turks or wounded. Turkish commanders always quarraled with the German. They always protested this orders.
 
a-Staff Col. Halil Sami Bey was the commander of 9th Division. He protested him about his decision. 9th div. fought bravely and stopped thhe enemy. Sanders fired him into retirement.
 
b-Staff Col. Ahmet Fevzi Bey was group commander of Saros Bay Region where von Sanders waited an enemy landing. But the enemy landed on another spot. He was made Group Commander of Anafartalar Region. He was ordered immediately to attack the landing enemy. Col. Ahmet Fevzi Bey marched all day long to the front. His soldiers were all exaused and tired. he ordered his men to rest the night and atack early in the morning. Von Sanders were very upset he ordered again to attack. Col. Ahmet fevzi protested and said there it were a suicite to attack the enemy with very tired soldiers. Von Sanders fired him from the army. Col. Ahmet fevzi reported to to Enver Pasha. Enver didnt liked von Sanders too. Col. Ahmet Fevzi founded right and attached to Turkish Embassy in Wienna as military attache. I assume Von Sanders looked around and searche a commander. Lt. Col. Mustafa Kemal was the commander of 19th Inf. Div. He was made commander of Anafartalar Group. The story which followed later we all know.
 
c- Colak Faik Pasha (the ex Grand Master of Turkish Free and Accepted Masons)the commander of 2nd Army Corps and commander of south wing group on Zigindere region where British and French landed on June 28th -July 3th 1915. He always protested to the orders of von Sanders. He was also fired. But Talat Pasha the Grand Vezier the first Grand Master of Turkish Masons made him Army Corps commander on the East Front where he was killed by a russian bullet while inspecting the first line trenches with Ismet Inonu who became later 2nd president of Turkish Republic. 
 
3- von sanders was not a great general. he was unsuccesfull on the Syrian Front.
 
Thanks to Turkish Officers and brave Turkish Soldiers!
Thanks to Mustafa Kemal Pasha Ataturk!
 
photos of Turkish Commanders I posted in another forum:
 
 
 
 
 
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Alparslan View Drop Down
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  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 07:20
Originally posted by Otto Liman Von Sanders

Secondly he was helped by poor Allied leadership. Instead of using their massive fleet to force a passage through the straits to Istanbul, the British and French admirals called for ground troops to capture the Dardenells peninsula so their battleships could sail on into the unmolested. for more information about the great general Sanders: Here
 
In fact Allied forces had tried to force a passage in 18 March 1915 by a massive naval attack but they could not. They could not even reach the half of the Canakkale strait (Dardanelles)  but 3 battleships were already sunk (Ocean, Irresistible and Bouvet) and 4 battleships were very severely damaged (Inflexible, Suffren, Gaulois and Agamemnon). If they decided to continue most probably they would loose a huge combined navy of France and Great Britain completely.
 
But in land wars navy has been served very effectively against Turks. If the allied power lacked the fire power of navy they would be definetely locked in a much smaller land piece or most probably they would be forced to swim in the Agean Sea by Turks.
 
Just check the map below


Edited by Alparslan - 23-Aug-2006 at 07:23
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