’Lessons from History?’

If lessons are learned at all, they are learned from history.

What else is there to learn from?

Thats a very, very good point gcle203...indeed, one argument would be to say that if we do not learn from history, what is the point or value of such things as history eduation? even these forums? books?..

  ...but perhaps the focal point is 'choice'..what do we choose to learn or ignore?.....it is maybe about being pro-active in our choices. In my opinion, what we learn from the past, most notably our attitudes, knowledge and values, invariably affects the decisions and personal choices we make in the present and for the future......Consequently, we are utilising the evidence of the past to inform and evaluate our perceptions of the world in which we live.....

....Ultimately, such judgements might be used to facilitate change for better or worse, although it is perhaps ironic that future study of our present history will customarily provide an insight into the mistakes and pitfalls not so readily evident within our current timeframe.....

..some of this may sound painfully obvious but there are some who argue that history has no purpose or place in current thinking, it is looking back when we should be lookng forward...Once again i cannot recall where i read this statement but here it is..."The only thing that we can learn from history is that there is nothing to learn from history?� ....

"pegasusdi" stated "history is the greatest ( and the only)labaratory of social sciences and it is not easy to give up the curiosity about the past" i would have to totally agree with you there......

you also mentioned  "So as long as we don't try to copy paste from past to present, history is still important to understand 'present' but deriving 'lessons' can be somewhat tricky"...again, something else i would tend to agree with....We may not always heed the warnings from the past and learn the �lessons,� however history should always be a subject used to encourage a search for understanding, to find the truth, to reason with conflict and destruction, and to enable us to develop into well-rounded individuals....(this is probably morally over-bearing, very idealistic and seemingly not very practical, but i am well aware of that but for discussion purposes).... 

.....However, what we decide to take on board is greatly influenced by our individual loyalties, prejudices and our sense of cultural identity; what is �historical fact� for one group of people can be �historical fiction� to another......

In my opinion - no lessons are learned - that is exactly what we, the humans dont do.
We in all our selfdefined knowledge, are sadly enough not on a crusade to make the world better, based on previous experiences. Maybe a few individuals or organisations are - but as a whole, no.
If we are crusading, maybe the "better world" concept is used as pretext, but there are so many other agenda's.
We cant even seem to compensate for the damage already done due to greed, lust of power, religious insanity etc. 
Instead we build "walls" and borders to protect our wealth. We also (EU)subside our farmers so they can export their goods at dumping prices which makes it totally impossible for local farmers elsewhere to make a living.
We also know hundreds of children starve to death every day - but no crusaders coming to their rescue.
Want to join me on a crusade to Sudan? - no? - ohhh... I see, no oil.

As I see it - noone is interested in learning from History - it only repeat itself endlessly.

..interesting and valid points by Gol Empies and Northman.....

..however, playing 'devils advocate', does this mean the human race has always been so stuck in a repetative cycle of gloom? have we indeed learnt nothing from our past?....

...i tend to think that the 'key' to learning the right lessons of history, and therefore understanding the past, is in the gathering of knowledge and the provision of education.....

..........the past may provide obvious conclusions, but more often than not, the lessons of history are subtler in their approach and appear to be a culmination of knowledge gathered over the passing years which  result in a �whole� body of information and resources that will enable a process of education to take place...... whether we use such education to make informed choices and decisions seems to be down to an individual�s psychology and social abilities and the majority may end up as Northman noted, not "interested in learning from history"...

....ideally though, and this is my own personal opinion, history should fire the imagination of young and old alike. It is wise to consider how the past has influenced the present by studying the great and not so great societies that have gone before, including their politics, culture and religious beliefs. By doing so, it is possible to understand the diversity of the human experience and therefore comprehend ourselves as individuals and members of societies built upon historical foundations....i have found that learning history has enbled me to develop a better sense of awarness, more tolerance, and a greater understanding of the world i live in...it just seems to me that the more i do this, the more i move away from conflict and ignorance?... 

.Gol Empires asked "What is there to learn from the past?"

...which brings it neatly back to the original question on the thread

Gol Empires also noted that "There are different versions of history.What is right for a group is wrong for the rival. As individuals we may learn from history.As groups we cannot."

...In response, i will state what i said earlier........"However, what we decide to take on board is greatly influenced by our individual loyalties, prejudices and our sense of cultural identity; what is �historical fact� for one group of people can be �historical fiction� to another......"

..i guess here, this is all down to developing that 'understanding' and education, the sharing of historical knowledge between diffrent peoples, much like history authors debating orthodox, revisonist and post-revisonist views of historical events.....perhaps to avoid that 'cycle of gloom', this is one area where we CAN learn something from our past mistakes?..the very existance of this forum i think helps promote this line of thought....

..John Tosh has pointed out that �a historical education achieves a number of goals at once: it trains the mind, enlarges the sympathies and provides a much needed perspective on some of the most pressing problems of our time.� .....In short, the study of history develops our ability to think constructively and with foresight. To disregard the benefits of historical education, as well as education in general, is paying no attention to the fine threads that hold our very existence together......bad news all round then? 

I see learning/education as the only hope for a more peaceful world.
But you can only educate individuals.
You can mislead a whole nation -  but to give the people the possibility of a competent free choice, they need education free of political and religious doctrines.

My former statement "we dont learn from history" was a "crusade" directed towards the christian western world. We call ourselves christians, educated and well enlightened. But where is the christian conscience?
If its present somewhere, it certainly isnt with those in power. They might call themselves christians - but they dont practise it. The are still crusading for wealth and power.
I'm not religious in particular - but I try to honor the christian values.

In this forum combined, there are more knowledge of history than anyone can ask for, and everyone can enjoy this knowledge and learn from it.
People of different religions, nations, and conceptions can bend their opinions and acheive a better understanding of others. Thats the main point as I see it.

Nations and rulers of nations are stil on the same trail of blood - and as long as they can convince people to take pride in a nation, wars, patroism, religion, a flag or whatever - things wont change.
So learning about history can be a double edged sword.
"Look at our history - we are a great and proud nation - lets go out and show them our courage" 

Things will change when individuals will respect one another. At least, thats the primary condition for things to change.

That human beings learn, and learn avidly, is indisputable.

At least as children.

Where the problem arises is with unlearning - when assimilating new facts and experiences involves recognising that one's previous beliefs, held as a result of time and effort spent learning in the past, are wrong.

A fabled Zen master was asked by a follower if he would help him learn. The master passed the aspirant a full glass of water, and said: "Please pour me a drink in that."

That's all very true.  However it shows that some people don't learn from the past to become "better" people, just more successful people.  Learning doesn't imply good intentions.

That's the reason I despise the simple minded liberal view of international relations that says "mankind will learn that war isn't worth it".  WRONG!  Some will come to that superficial conclusion, but others will only conclude that others failed in their execution of unsuccessful wars.