Persia & Islam, questions plz?

Originally posted by Maziar @Fizzil, what holds you here and answer very hearthly to Land Of Aryan and Iranian41ife is your Arabic nationalism, admit the truth of it. So you can't blame another people to be nationalists. Btw, i don't see a probleme with nationalism, it is not the same as pan iranisdm or pan arabism or whatever. Nationalism means only you love your home, at least in Iranian Weltanschauung.

No, i'm not a nationalist, i respect iranians, i have iranian friends in the UAE, and my descent is iranian but they were arabised long ago, my grandmother still knows Farsi, but i do not, i will at some time learn Farsi, but i'm plenty happy knowing the language that helps me most in this country. I respect Iranian4life and LandofAryan, but sometimes they spread some false messages, it was alright at first, but i had to stand up to Azimuth, first of all he is a fellow countryman and a brother, like all other Iranians and Arabs in the UAE.

Again i'm not a nationalist, just stating simple facts about me, i do not disrespect iranians or spread false messages about them, and i never will, this is as simple as i will put it.

So your last line of defence is ferdowsi's poem? why didn't he resist if he didn't like to become muslim?

And where is the proof he was forced? didn't you say he was a devout muslim?

the irony of his peom is pretty immense if you ask me.

he did become a very devout muslim, that is undeniable, he was muslim till his death and was religious. but the fact remains that he indirectly says that iranians were made to be muslims. obviously they eventually came to accept that fact and become very devout muslims.

Originally posted by Iranian41ife he did become a very devout muslim, that is undeniable, he was muslim till his death and was religious. but the fact remains that he indirectly says that iranians were made to be muslims. obviously they eventually came to accept that fact and become very devout muslims.

But he didn't say by force

he said uncivilised arabs made him muslim, and thats it.

In comparison to Azimuth's article he is the one with the more credible argument, and guess what his article is far more anti-arab than ferdowsi

Originally posted by Seko Originally posted by Iranian41ife like i said before, i had no intention of posting that site as evidence to support my argument. I EVEN TOLD AZIMUTH THAT THE ARTICLE WOULD BE BIASED because it would be from an unfriendly source. HE TOLD ME TO POST IT ANYWAY. get off my back, you should know as well as i do that i never use sites like that as proof for anything in any of my discussions! i posted this because i was asked to post it! and we are suddenly ultra nationalists because we are trying to tell azimuth that the arab occupation of iran wasnt a nice little picnic in the park where arabs and iranians got along? Iranian41ife you presented your article as a response to Fizzil. You chose a biased article. It wasn't accepted by him either. Iranian41ife's response to Fizzil (below): Quote: you want sources? well i can show you iranian sources, but i dont think you would accept them. So long as the sources are primary, first hand accounts of historians who have collected evidence and fact during their eras. Or Secondary sources referring to primary sources. Ok. __________ Iranian41ife gave this post as his response: The Iranian Identity Crisis: Islam v. Iranian Identity By: Paolo Bassi http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11276&am p;am p;am p;PN=1&TPN=3   Obviously, you selectively chose to present that article as your initial response, now you are saying that someone told you to post it? Is this your way of expressing your opinion of Islam? From a biased site? Then expect us to take your concerns seriously. Hmmm!

nothing will satisfy you guys because everything i post you will say is anti islam. the fact is that that is what actually happened! its not anti islamic, its the truth.

anything that you think is remotely against islam you guys will lable  as anti islamic!

Iranian41ife,

How you post articles is your business. Just don't expect to recieve a serious debate on it when you refer to propaganda sites. That site is so wrong on many Islamic accounts, and it reflects your biased opinions nonetheless. 

The forcefull influence of Islam by Arabs on Iran is inconclusive, as I had said before. Your whole purpose appear to make us believe that the religion was forced. Now you only accepted the Iranian role in distorting Islam after members here debated your facts. That is not anti anything but common sense. Choose your accusations carefully.

 

LOA, Fizzil appears to repeat himself clearly for you guys. He stressed that Ferdozi wasn't forced and Fizzil did not accept an internet IM as proof of your arguement.

Edited by Seko

Originally posted by Seko LOA, Fizzil appears to repeat himself clearly for you guys. He stressed that Ferdozi wasn't forced and Fizzil did not accept an internet IM as proof of your arguement.

Do you really read posts??
or choose some words that you like to attack us??!!
Did I speak about Ferdousi??? where is it???
you misunderstood me with Iranian
you can't read Arabic but I can read & understand some words,

I said about it:
http://www.alnoor.info/Scientists/zaman.asp


& I didn't say IM is my Proof, first read what I said then find arab out of AE, anyhow you like, & ask him what Olama ol Arab means
then back & accuse me
& so if you can;t read, Fizzil answerd:

Originally posted by Fizzil Quote:Iranian i cant read arabic...... did you expect everyone can just because its supposed to be God's language? isnt that the excuse the arabs used to force it on others? Its not my business you can't read or not, you just claimed that arabs claim everything is theirs, and believe me, only a minority of pan-arabs do. Which is why i linked you to this website.

I've to repeat my post, may be you read those:

Seko it's for you to, read it Fizzil wrote: For reference: http://www.alnoor.info/Scientists/zaman.asp Arabic website, i'll be damned if they claimed a persian scientist to be arab. have nice days there would you Translate for others what does it mean at Title of page "Olamo Ol-ARAB" = ARAB scientist?? doesn't title say all are Arab??? 1. it about Razi ينتمي أبو بكر الرازي إلى القرن الثالث الهجري، ولد في مدينة الري جنوبي طهران بفارس. وعاش الرازي في أيام الخليفة العباسي عضد الدولة، وكان مجلسه من العلماء والحكماء. وقد استشاره الخليفة عندما أراد بناء المستشفى العضدي في بغداد، وذلك لاختيار الموقع الملائم له. Would you show me the words of " Irani or Farsi Alasl " = Iranian or Persian Orgin ???? 2. Ghazvini (means from ghazvin, a city 120 Km far away from tehran) هو أبو عبد الله بن زكريا بن محمد القزويني 48; ينتهي نسبه إلى أنس بن مالك عالم المد&a mp;a mp;a mp;# 1610;نة. ولد بقزوين في حدود سنة 605 للهجرة، وتوفي سنة 682 هـ، اشتغل بال&a mp;a mp;a mp;# 1602;ضاء مدة، ولكن عمله لم يلهه عن التأليف في الحقول العلمية. ففقد شغف بالفلك، والطبيعة 48; وعلوم الحياة، ولكن أعظم أعماله شأناً هي نظرياته في علم الرصد الجوي. same for him, Where is " Farsi Alasl " 3. Attar neishabori ( Neishabori deleted from his name & his birth place from article, same as ghazvini, neishabouri means from neishabor) هو أبو الخير ابن أبي البقاء النيلي، المعروف بابن العطار، طبيب مذكور من أبناء القرن السابع الهجري. نزل بغداد، وكان خبيراً بالعلاج ف&a mp;a mp;a mp;# 1578;قرب من دار الخلافة، ذكره ابن العبري في (مختصر تاريخ الدول، وقال أنه عمر طويلاً وحصل مالاً كثيراً. وكانت وفات ابن العطار سنة 608 هـ . 4. Majosi, هو علي بن العباس المجوسي، من أطباء الدولة العباسية في أواسط مدتها، فارسي الأصل، أهوازي الموطن. اشتغل في صناعة الطب على أبي ماهر موسى بن سيار. اتصل بعضد الدولة بن بويه، وصنّف له كتاباً مشهوراً في الطب اسمه (كامل الصناعة الطبية الضرورية واشتهر باسم (الكتاب الملكي، فيه عشرون مقالة وما زال مخطوطاً. قال ابن أبي أصيبعة: (هو كتاب جليل مشتمل على أجزاء الصناعة الطبية علمها وعملها. وقال القفطي: (مال الناس إليه في وقته، ولزموا درسه، إلى أن ظهر كتاب ابن سينا فمالوا إليه. وكانت وفاة ابن المجوسي حوالي السنة 400 هـ . wow waht's happend?? a Miracle??? NO bcuz of his Name " Majos (= arabs called/calles iranian as Majos after invasion as I know means freed slave [Azimuth denies it] ) " our Arabs freind without any Identity problem (Azimuth claimed it ) wrote Farsi olasl (= Iranian orgin ) but still under Olma Ol-Arab=ARAB scientist title any way thanks for Link, Azimuth could learn something about who has Identity Crisis Fizzil wrote: Quote:Iranian i cant read arabic...... did you expect everyone can just because its supposed to be God's language? isnt that the excuse the arabs used to force it on others? Its not my business you can't read or not, you just claimed that arabs claim everything is theirs, and believe me, only a minority of pan-arabs do. Which is why i linked you to this website. Wise answer, next time I'll post article in Parsi & it'll be ur problem to read it, non of my business, OK?? & also I proved that your site indirectly claimed that they were arab Iranian wrote: so it gives it more credibility that a non-iranian wrote that! why would a western guy care so much to write about iran and the arab occupation if it wasnt true? Give it up Iranain, If we use article by Iranain author, we accused to use Pan Iranist( which doesn't exist) source, or If we use western article, we accused to use anti Islam source!! But a site in Arabic which claims Iranian as Arab is reliable source!!! & @Fizzli: Quote: it didn't say Arab Scientist(Olama Arab), if you read arabic well, they said Olama ol Arab, it means scientists that existed during caliphate times(Scinetists during the reign of Arabs). Don't make me fool man there is Yahoo massenger with Arab rooms, I asked people all answer me Olama ol Arab = Arab Scientist by the page title Olama ol arab, indirectly all remarked as Arab, & yes I read Tehran or Ghazvin, but you didn't said me where is Farsi Alasl in the articles as Majosi???

Edited by Land of Aryan

LOA, first post:

No proof of forced conversion.

Second post:

Take my explanation or leave it.

Olama al Arab is differen from Olama Arab. Previously the website used to have "Olama Arab wa Muslimeen" in it, but they decided to shorten the title. Also why did they mention Majosi? doesn't that contradict the entire article?

Thats the final time i explain it.

Also fyi, most of these scientists mentioned of writing and talking in arabic, the term is not ethnic(again not ethnic) but general, but you guys always seem to make it an ethnic issue. Wikipedia has more on the issue

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Arab_scientists_an d_scholars

So please don't take it out of context.

@Fizzil:
I understand what you said, & Answered you:

by the page title Olama ol arab, indirectly all remarked as Arab, & yes I read Tehran or Ghazvin, but you didn't said me where is Farsi Alasl in the articles as Majosi one???

ostamble();

I wonder, you want to hear others word & beleived them but not ours
are you really honest??
& I think It's your last shoot to accuse me to troll!!!
now you can ban me, go ahead, NO PROBLEM

& don't think I didn't understand your mean in article in AE magazine, it was clear signal directly to me, wasn't it??

Originally posted by Seko When you call for the heads of Moderators, yes it concerns me. When you share my PM's in public it concerns me. Hence a rebel.

have you ever read it,

In the case of reporting misconducts of a staff member, they must be addressed to an administrator (preferably) or another moderator.

& was your PM a secret one???
it was about Merced12 & his troll which concered all of us,
I post in Iranian hamvatanan forum to relax others.
on that time I thoght you were neutral mod!!
It is/was dream!