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Who are the Romans today?

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  Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who are the Romans today?
    Posted: 21-Mar-2008 at 08:16
I think every province that was conquered by the romans have their blood, Syria to Britain, from Tunisia to Germany, all conquered people without knowing it has Roman blood. Same goes with the Greeks, Iran, Iraq to Egypt has their blood and vice versa because of the influx, heck I think nobody can claim they are pure nowadays because of this. 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2008 at 02:21
I would place my best bet on the English, or at least the ones residing below Hadrian's wall.
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  Quote curiosity1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 08:19
I always thought that Romans were the ancestors of Italians because of the word Rome. But someone told me recently that they are actually Germans. I am confused, can someone explain, please.
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  Quote Vorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 12:27
Originally posted by curiosity1

I always thought that Romans were the ancestors of Italians because of the word Rome. But someone told me recently that they are actually Germans. I am confused, can someone explain, please.


Well the one who told you was right. If we talk about DNA or heritage modern Italians are indeed descendants of the Romans. Of course they have mixed a lot with Ostrogoths and Lombards and Normans and Greeks but if you go to Italy you will notice that except from the north their characteristics are Mediterranean

I would place my bets that the closest to Romans are some country blokes in a village somewhere in the mountains of Italy.


Edited by Vorian - 15-Apr-2008 at 12:28
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  Quote cola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2008 at 18:51
This question is too vague to come to any conclusion as at some point even the etruscans, sabines, latins etc. werent considered roman.
Itshouldbefirstdecidedwetherwearetalkingaboutthepeoplewhofirstsettledthesevenhillsorthecitizenship.
It might be more reasonable to ask who are the descendants of ancient italic tribes which the answer is quite obvious.
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  Quote Basileus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2008 at 14:24
I believe the modern Italians are direct descendents of the ancient Italians (Romans, Etruscans, Greeks, Celts and Pelasgians). Sure all people on earth have mixed but it would be wrong to say that the Italians look different or have no blood relation to there ancient forebears. As for other nations having Roman lineage i seriously doubt such a thing.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2008 at 03:19
By what evidence do you doubt such a thing? They did have numerous colonies, and Romanization was an incredible success, too. 
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  Quote Basileus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2008 at 06:43

By the use of Anthropology and Genetics. I just find it too hard for lets say a British or a German having ancient Italian ancestors, its just too silly colonies are allways much smaller then the ‘native’ population. You would have to be very very lucky.



Edited by Basileus - 13-May-2008 at 06:45
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2008 at 06:54
No you would not have to be very very very lucky. By the fact that there are 700 million people in Europe today, and there were about 30 then that amounts to a lot of deascendants.
genghis Khan has millions. etc..

A first generation can have 4 children as an example

If four of those have children you get between 4 and up to 16

that generation can double to quadruple its next generation

little by little you end up with thousands of people descending from generation 0


Big%20smile



I just find it too hard for people not to have some sort of mix of blood. Judging by your theory then the non-Roman Italians themselves probably would not have any. Considering that
Rome was depopulated no one has Roman blood then.










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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2008 at 07:03

- probably 100 million contemporary Americans descended from 5-8,000 Great Migration immigrants of 1620-50. If you have 50 or more sets (husbands and wives) of Great Migration immigrant forebears, you are probably related to almost all of the 100 million, within the range of 8th-12th cousins. The probability of kinship to notables is fully 100 percent, and the number of such “household name” distant kin probably surpasses 500, possibly 1000.



http://www.newenglandancestors.org/research/services/articles_gbr34.asp


an example of New England descent patterns studied among numerous others can give you a hint here

By assuming that there would be almost none who would descend from them, then that would mean that there was a static population from antiquity to now, when that is obviously not the case. We have had a population explosion of up to close to 7 billion people from a worldwide of no more than three hundred million in antiquity


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  Quote Basileus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2008 at 07:16

Well America and Rome are both very very different  considering ones a modern invention and they span over a millenia in difference. Also are you sure that these people where not Romanized? We all know the power of culture. Lets not forget the plagues that hit Europe during the 'Middle Ages' and the various Barbaric German hoards that invaded and basically ended the 'Western Roman Empire'. I can see maybe the French and Spaniards having a bit of Roman Lineage but the British i sinserly doubt such a thing, after all the Celts above Hadrians Wall where basically running around free.



Edited by Basileus - 13-May-2008 at 07:17
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  Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 20:12
Don't the Greeks still use the name Roman sometimes for themselves? And what about the Romanians. They don't use the "nians" at the end. They simply say Roman.
 
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 20:34
Originally posted by es_bih

No you would not have to be very very very lucky. By the fact that there are 700 million people in Europe today, and there were about 30 then that amounts to a lot of deascendants.
genghis Khan has millions. etc..

A first generation can have 4 children as an example

If four of those have children you get between 4 and up to 16

that generation can double to quadruple its next generation

little by little you end up with thousands of people descending from generation 0


Big%20smile
Assuming you're not worried by incest.
 
Actually I suspect the broadest spreading of Roman genes came from brothels, prostitution and slavery. In the colonies I would expect lots more Y-chromosomes from Rome than mitochondrial ones.
 
"One man in his time plays many parts...."
 
Of course, not all Roman soldiers were Romans or Italians. Former Roman colonies in general therefore almost certainly have liberal sprinklings of genes from all the other colonies as well as Italy.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 21:05
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by es_bih

No you would not have to be very very very lucky. By the fact that there are 700 million people in Europe today, and there were about 30 then that amounts to a lot of deascendants. genghis Khan has millions. etc..A first generation can have 4 children as an exampleIf four of those have children you get between 4 and up to 16that generation can double to quadruple its next generationlittle by little you end up with thousands of people descending from generation 0Big%20smile

Assuming you're not worried by incest.


Actually I suspect the broadest spreading of Roman genes came from brothels, prostitution and slavery. In the colonies I would expect lots more Y-chromosomes from Rome than mitochondrial ones.


"One man in his time plays many parts...."


Of course, not all Roman soldiers were Romans or Italians. Former Roman colonies in general therefore almost certainly have liberal sprinklings of genes from all the other colonies as well as Italy.



Most certainly I agree with you on that point. Racial or ethnic purity as we have seen it develop over the last two centuries did not bother Romans. For Justinian or Emperors both before and after him saw themselves as Romans and many had provincial peasant backgrounds. A lot of mixing of different peoples occured. It is highy possible due to that that the Roman Romans who were in the service and colonials spread Roman genetics alongside many others all around the Roman world.
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  Quote Basilikos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2008 at 20:17
This kind of a debate never gets anywhere. Its the same kind of debating that goes on with the Greeks are they the same people. Some will say yes some will say no the same will be said about the Romans.

Edited by Basilikos - 11-Jun-2008 at 20:17
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  Quote William123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2014 at 21:03
From approx 43 AD - 47 AD is when the Roman conquest of southern Britain occurred and then became part of the roman empire in which many Romans settled in Southern Britain and or where stationed there, eventually they Occupied the whole of Britain and built a wall between England and Scotland to Try prevent Scottish Tribes from attaching. 
The Romans occupied Britain Until 
410 AD in which time they Retreated and left the Remaining Britain's and Romans who chose to stay to defend themselves.
now considering the long duration The Romans where in Britain i would defiantly say that there is mix between to twos Genetics


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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2014 at 23:24
by that do you identify the historically traditional tribes of the south or do you include the celts-Welsh-Scots in the west-north?
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  Quote Oma B. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2017 at 15:53
I am from Laeti or Foederati married into the lines of Vispania Agrippa, King Gaius Julius Alexander, and Marcus Antonius.  I live in the U.S.  I have ancestors who married an Italian Princess when they were Kings of Toxandrie (belgium and Luxembourg).  The following is what I found from wikipedia after tracing my ancestors:

The franks were called gauls which developed out of celtic culture.  They controlled river trade routes and divided into three tribes Trocmi, Tolistobogii and Tectosages in 278bc to help Nicomedes I of Bithynia  in a dynastic struggle against his brother. They were eventually defeated by the Seleucid king Antiochus I (275 BC), in a battle where the Seleucid war elephants shocked them.  In the settlement of 64 BC, Galatia became a client-state of the Roman empire, the old constitution disappeared, and three chiefs (wrongly styled "tetrarchs") were appointed, one for each tribe. But this arrangement soon gave way before the ambition of one of these tetrarchs, Deiotarus,  who made himself master of the other two tetrarchies and was finally recognized by the Romans as 'king' of Galatia. The Galatian language continued to be spoken in central Anatolia until the 6th century. Deiotarus sided with the others against caesar and after Caesar's death, Mark Antony, for a large monetary consideration, publicly announced that, in accordance with instructions left by Caesar, Deiotarus was to resume possession of all the territory of which he had been deprived.

The Roman Empire split into a Gallic Empire in the West (260–274) (when france, belgium and luxembourg separated into gallic from roman empire) with constantius as caesar.  Constantine settled Franks on the lower left bank of the Rhine; their settlements required a line of fortifications to keep them in check, indicating that Rome had lost almost all local control. In Gaul (france, luxembourgh, belgium), which did not really recover from the invasions of the third century, there was widespread insecurity and economic decline in the 300s.  In 306 ragaise king of toxandrie  and Ascaric led a Frankish raid across the Rhine into southern Gaul while Constantine the Great was campaigning against the Picts in Britannia. Apparently the two had made a previous agreement with Rome not to cross the border, since Constantine sought to punish them as traitors upon his return. The execution took place in one of the chief cities of Gaul, probably Trier, and the two Franks and their followers were torn apart by animals in the amphitheatre before a large crowd. Royaume europe lists Ragaise as german. Ragaise ancestors remained King of Toxandrie until the 400's Until Theodemir de toxandrie's son Chlodion le Chevelu de Francie, chef des Francs (vers 392 - 448) became the last.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2017 at 16:05
Welcome to the forum. Just be careful with "copy paste".
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  Quote Oma B. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2017 at 13:10
OK, on being careful copy pasting.  Thank you for welcoming me.













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Edited by Oma B. - 28-Feb-2017 at 13:15
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