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Ponce de Leon
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Lonce De Peon
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Topic: Would you destroy Caesar? Posted: 22-Apr-2006 at 18:07 |
Let us say you were one of the senators in the days of the Republic. Many men like Sulla, Marius, and Pompey all have tried to go for the dictator for life scheme. But so far, none of them have ever made a single step forward from "that forbidden line." Now was it inevitable you say that someone will eventually come over and take that extra step across the line which all others before never was able to take?
--Here comes that man, Gaius Julius Caesar. He has declared dictatorship, with the army as his right arm, and already made a bid to become king. But with the people being unresponsive.
--Maybe it is only a matter of time before he does become King, and the great experiment dubbed "the Republic" will be cast aside. WHat would you, a man (or if your a girl a lady) of the senate, and of the Republic would do? Will you support Caesar and benefit from his rewards? Or will you do anything in your power to save the Republic?
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Paul
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Posted: 22-Apr-2006 at 18:19 |
I suppose it would depend whether you were blessed with hindsight. Killing Caesar lead to Octavian and the Julio-Claudian dynasty. So it's a kind of lose-lose dilemma, kill or not kill Caesar you get an emperor.
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Ponce de Leon
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Posted: 22-Apr-2006 at 18:26 |
Ok i may not have added enough of the thing to ask my question. If you had no idea what the outcome of killing Caesar would be, what path would you choose anyway?
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Posted: 25-Apr-2006 at 16:26 |
To kill or not to kill Caesar...hmm.
Well, as we see from history, the assassination of Caesar plays no important part in the dissolution of the Roman Republic (it was the mass political reforms Caesar instated, rather than his assassination, which lead to the coronation of Octavian Caesar as first emperor, though it could have been used as leverage for his campaign), save for a break between lifelong dictatorship and the Empire, via the Second Triumverate. If one is to take the decision of assassination, one should consider when to do it. When exactly did his reforms take place, what critical period could the assassination cause the prevention of the dictatorship of Caesar.
Alternatively, if you aren't going to follow that path, you have to question if the Republic has become dissatisfactory (as was one of Sulla's arguments, if I recollect correctly) in its dealings with the Mob, and also if the leaders are becoming incompetants.
Of course, this is from an objective view of history and not the "present." It really depends on what time you are talking about -- is it just when he's gone into office as a lowly quaestor, or is it at the time just before he is about to leave for Gaul as a Consul to campaign to gain lands. Is it as he returns with his men, crossing the Rubicon in a direct and vulgar disregard of political taboo, or is it in his early days, taking into account his uncle's direct conflict with Sulla.
I would say that if you wanted to preserve the Republic, he should be killed anywhen between his early days, to early Consulship.
If you wanted an Empire, just leave him to go as he will.
Edited by When
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Mosquito
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Posted: 25-Apr-2006 at 17:47 |
Sulla was different. He restored Republic in its best. Dont forget that after Sulla got power, he reformed political system of Roman Republic and retired into private life. He had no intention to rule, i would say he even didnt like the absolute power he had.
Caesar was one of those few men in history who can change it. I agree with When. To stop what he started, he should have been killed earlier, maybe even during proscriptions of Sulla. His death in 44 BC didnt change anything.
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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Maljkovic
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Posted: 26-Apr-2006 at 14:05 |
Do you believe his assasination was the work of the pro-republic party or rather a plot (by Brutus?) to put someone else in Ceasers place?
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Ponce de Leon
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Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 22:37 |
I do not believe Brutus wanted to put someone else in Caesar's place. He wanted to help the weakinging republic as it was dying under Caesar's fist. He put his loyalty to Rome before anyone else, everyone including Caesar
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Posted: 30-Apr-2006 at 14:13 |
Gaius Julius Caesar. He conquered Gaul, he conquered Pompey the Great in Italy, Spain and Greece, he quelled a rebellion in Egypt, he conquered most of Asia Minor. He was a spokesman for the Plebian, someone who's charismatic attitude won his support from Rome at it's core.
Caesar was a hero, not a villian, and I would more than gladly follow him into wars, physical or political. Hail Caesar.
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Ponce de Leon
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Posted: 30-Apr-2006 at 18:27 |
It is true that Caesar was loved. Actually he is still loved even today. A friend who was at Rome showed me a picture of his grave with fresh flowers on it with letters, and poems. It is amazing how this man who would be over 2000 years old is still loved like this.
Despite the fact of the matter, he did destroy the Republic, which i believed he called it "the great experiment" before he put his diadem on
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R_AK47
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Posted: 03-May-2006 at 14:43 |
Caesar was a good ruler, he should not have been assasinated. Rome needed a strong emperor to rule the empire. I agree with Laconius.
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Posted: 04-May-2006 at 16:25 |
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon
It is true that Caesar was loved. Actually he is still loved even today. A friend who was at Rome showed me a picture of his grave with fresh flowers on it with letters, and poems. It is amazing how this man who would be over 2000 years old is still loved like this.
Despite the fact of the matter, he did destroy the Republic, which i believed he called it "the great experiment" before he put his diadem on |
He destroyed it. So what? Caesar alone offered more to the Plebian than each and every Senator of his time combined. "The Great Experiment" was successful until it turned out like every other aristocracy in History, and just as the tyrants of Athens seized power and helped the commoner, Caesar was a tyrant for the Plebian. Tyrant often has a negative connotation, but Pisistrates and Cliesthenes instituted some of the most democratic reforms in Athens, just as Caesar respected the Plebians.
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Maljkovic
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Posted: 06-May-2006 at 10:34 |
Ceaser was a power hungry egomaniac and butcher. I'd say that makes a pretty good description of a villain.
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Mosquito
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Posted: 07-May-2006 at 08:31 |
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon
It is true that Caesar was loved. Actually he is still loved even today. A friend who was at Rome showed me a picture of his grave with fresh flowers on it with letters, and poems. It is amazing how this man who would be over 2000 years old is still loved like this.
Despite the fact of the matter, he did destroy the Republic, which i believed he called it "the great experiment" before he put his diadem on |
Iv been in Rome many tiumes but never heard about "his grave". Where isit?
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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Ponce de Leon
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Lonce De Peon
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Posted: 07-May-2006 at 09:58 |
I had a hard time finding the tomb, but I did get a reliable site that has pics of it, along with other pics of roman ruins... click here...
If you can see them, there are still flowers there. Pretty interesting
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Hannibal the Great
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Posted: 10-May-2006 at 20:14 |
I think if he had been assasinated in a different place it might have turned out very different. They could have killed him in his home, created a loyal lookalike, have him as emperor reinstate the senate and made everything back to how it was.
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