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April 22- Lenin born

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: April 22- Lenin born
    Posted: 22-Apr-2006 at 03:43
April 22 is the 112th day of the year in the Gregorian calendar (113th in leap years). There are 253 days remaining.


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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2006 at 08:18

Vladimir Ilich Ulyanov, better known as Lenin (one of his many many nicknames), was born today, in 1870.

He realised a Marxist revolution in Russia, by coming up with a new party organisation ('Vanguard party'), which was later copied by the revolutionaries of the world, to the extent that Communism became synonymous with Leninism. 

Like him or not, he was undoubtedly the most important man of the 20th century.

Here in disguise.

Normally looked like this:

 

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  Quote Dark Age Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2006 at 11:46
296    

St. Gaius ends his reign as Catholic Pope.

Saint Caius or Gaius was pope from 283 until his death in 296. He was the son of Gaius, or, according to St. Susanna of Concordius, a relative of the emperor Diocletian, and became pope on December 17, 283. His tomb, with the original epitaph, was discovered in the catacombs of Calixtus and in it the ring with which he used to seal his letters (see Arringhi, Roma subterr., 1. iv. c. xlviii. p. 426).

His feast is on April 22, together with Pope Soter. Saint Caius is portrayed in art wearing the Papal Tiara with Saint Nereus. He is venerated in Dalmatia and Venice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gaius

536    

St. Agapitus I ends his reign as Catholic Pope.

He collaborated with Cassiodorus in founding at Rome a library of ecclesiastical authors in Greek and Latin, and helped Cassiodorus with the project at Vivarium of translating the standard Greek philosophers into Latin.

His memory is kept on 20 September, the day of his deposition.

The Eastern churches commemorate him on 22 April, the day of his death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Agapetus_I

1500    

Pedro Alvarez Cabral discovers Brazil.

His commission was to establish permanent commercial relations and to introduce Christianity wherever he went, using force of arms when necessary to gain his point. The nature of the undertaking led rich Florentine merchants to contribute to the equipment of the ships, and priests to join the expedition. Among the captains of the fleet, which consisted of 13 ships with 1,500 men, were Bartolomeu Dias, Pro Vaz de Caminha, and Nicolau Coelho, the latter the companion of Vasco da Gama. Vasco da Gama himself gave the directions necessary for the course of the voyage.

The fleet left Lisbon on March 9, 1500, and following the course laid down, sought to avoid the calms off the coast of Gulf of Guinea. On leaving the Cape Verde Islands, where Lus Pires was forced by a storm to return to Lisbon, they sailed in a decidedly southwesterly direction. On April 22 a mountain was visible, to which the name of Monte Pascoal was given; on the April 23 Cabral landed on the coast of Brazil, and on the April 25 the entire fleet sailed into the harbor called Porto Seguro. Cabral perceived that the new country lay east of the line of demarcation made by Pope Alexander VI (see Treaty of Tordesillas), and at once sent Andr Gonalves (according to other authorities Gaspar de Lemos) to Portugal with the important tidings. Believing the newly-discovered country to be an island he gave it the name of Island of the True Cross (or Island of Vera Cruz) and took possession of it by erecting a cross and holding a religious service. The service was celebrated by the Franciscan, Father Henrique, afterwards Bishop of Ceuta.

Cabral resumed his voyage on May 3 1500. By the end of the month the fleet approached the Cape of Good Hope, where it was struck by a storm in which four vessels, including that of Bartolomeu Dias, were lost. With the ships now reduced to one-half of the original number, Cabral reached Sofala on July 16 and Mozambique on July 20. In the latter place he received a cordial greeting. On July 26 he came to Kilwa where he was unable to make an agreement with the ruler. On August 2 he reached Melinde; here he had a friendly welcome and obtained a pilot to take him to India. On August 10, the ship commanded by Diogo Dias, separated by weather, discovered an island they named after St Lawrence, later known as Madagascar.

Cabral continued to India to trade for pepper and other spices, establishing a factory at Calicut, where he arrived on September 13. In Cochin and Cananor Cabral succeeded in making advantageous treaties. After a chain of bad luck, culminating in a two-day bombardment of the city, Cabral started on the return voyage on January 16, 1501, and returned with only 4 of 13 ships to Portugal, on June 23, 1501.

Cabral was buried in a monastery in Santarm, Portugal. He has been honored on a number of postage stamps, for instance in a set of Brazilian stamps issued January 1, 1900 to mark the 400th anniversary of the discovery. In Brazil, he is also in the 1 cent coin, and in a special edition of the R$10 (10 Reais) note.

1509    Henry VIII ascends to the throne of England upon the death of his father, Henry VII.

1529    Spain and Portugal divide the eastern hemisphere in the Treaty of Saragosa.

1745    

The Peace of Fussen is signed.

Maximilian's son, Ferdinand Maria (1651-1679), who was a minor when he succeeded, did much indeed to repair the wounds caused by the Thirty Years' War, encouraging agriculture and industries, and building or restoring numerous churches and monasteries. In 1669, moreover, he again called a meeting of the diet, which had been suspended since 1612. His good work, however, was largely undone by his son Maximilian II Emanuel (1679-1726), whose far-reaching ambition set him warring against the Ottoman Empire and, on the side of France, in the great struggle of the Spanish succession.

Untaught by Maximilian II Emmanuel's experience, his son, Charles Albert (1726-1745), devoted all his energies to increasing the European prestige and power of his house. The death of the emperor Charles VI. proved his opportunity: he disputed the validity of the Pragmatic Sanction which secured the Habsburg succession to Maria Theresa, allied himself with France, conquered Upper Austria, was crowned king of Bohemia at Prague and, in 1742, emperor at Frankfurt. The price he had to pay, however, was the occupation of Bavaria itself by Austrian troops; and, though the invasion of Bohemia in 1744 by Frederick II of Prussia enabled him to return to Munich, at his death on January 20 1745 it was left to his successor to make what terms he could for the recovery of his dominions.

Maximilian III Joseph (1745 - 1777), by the peace of Fussen signed on 22 April 1745, obtained the restitution of his dominions in return for a formal acknowledgment of the Pragmatic Sanction.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bavaria

1792    President George Washington proclaims American neutrality in the war in Europe.

1861    Robert E. Lee is named commander of Virginia forces.

1889    

The Oklahoma land rush officially starts at noon as thousands of Americans race for new, unclaimed land.

The land concerned was a 58 mile (93 km) wide strip running for 225 miles (362 km) between southern Kansas and Oklahoma Territory, around 34,000 km. The Oklahoma Territory had been opened for settlement in the 1880s but the strip remained the possession of the Cherokee people. The strip, named the Cherokee Outlet, had been granted to them in 1828 as a route to the Indian Territories, other tribes took parts of the strip from the 1860s. After the Civil War a number of cattle trails, including the Chisholm Trail, were driven across the strip, linking Texas to the demanding eastern markets. In the 1880s the Strip itself was leased to a cattle farming association.

Widespread greed for the land led to a law banning cattle farming. The Cherokee then sold the land to the government, opening it up for homesteaders. The strip was divided into 42,000 claims, available to the first person, with a certificate, to put foot and stake a claim in them.

In the weeks leading up to September 16, up to 100,000 potential settlers began arriving on all four borders of the territory, especially the 165 mile (266 km) Kansas border.

On the appointed day, thousands of settlers lined up along the border, most on horseback, many on foot. Various rail companies had special trains stationed at the border, packed impossibly full of settlers. At noon, US Army stations blew bugles or fired cannons to start the race, and the settlers stampeded into the territory.

Many or most found their choice lots already taken; despite Army assurances to the contrary, as many as 90% of settlers had snuck across the border prior to the race and staked their claim ahead of time. These "boomers," also known as "sooners," claimed most of the available land long before the race started, and few were prosecuted for cheating.

The University of Oklahoma later took the Sooner name as its mascot, represented at athletic events by a covered wagon.

Reports of violence and recklessness abounded during the race. Settlers leaped off of moving trains to race towards their land; shootings over disputed parcels were widely rumored. Even US marshals, employed to maintain the lawful claiming of land, might have snatched hundreds of parcels for themselves.

The land rush was one of the most sudden human migrations in history. Many towns in Oklahoma, pre-planned by the government, went from a population of zero to 10,000 or more in a single afternoon. Storefronts were erected within days at the city centers.

The land rush was dramatized in films: at the climax of the Ron Howard film Far and Away, and two versions of the novel Cimarron. The original Cimarron won the Academy Award for Best Picture in 1931 and the remake in 1960 starring Glenn Ford.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_land_rush

1898    In the first action of the Spanish-American War, the USS Nashville, takes on a Spanish ship.

1915    

At the Second Battle of Ypres, the Germans use poison gas for the first time on a large scale on the Western Front in World War I and the first time a colonial force (Canadians) forced back a major European power (Germans) on European soil, which occurred in the battle of St. Juliaan-Kitcheners' Wood.

The Second Battle of Ypres consisted of four separate battles:

    * The Battle of Gravenstafel - 22 to 23 April 1915
    * The Battle of St Julien - 24 April to 4 May 1915
    * The Battle of Frezenberg - 8 to 13 May 1915
    * The Battle of Bellewaarde - 24 to 25 May 1915

168 tons of chlorine gas were released on 22 April over a four mile front. Around 5,000 troops died within ten minutes by asphyxiation. The gas affected the lungs and the eyes causing respiration problems and blindness. Being denser than air it flowed downwards forcing the troops to climb out of trenches.

Initially French Colonial and Algerian troops of the 45th and 78th French Divisions were attacked with gas; the survivors abandoning their positions en masse, leaving a 4 mile gap in the front line. However, the German High Command had not foreseen the effectiveness of their new weapon, and so had not sent any reinforcements to the area. German forces were unable to take advantage of this gap, and the Canadian Division (as the First Contingent of the CEF was now known, later to become the 1st Canadian Division) reinforced the gap and held that part of the line against further gas attacks until 3 May.

The winds were blowing in favour of the Germans; this meant that anything short of a full retreat would leave Allied forces in contaminated areas. The Canadians, initially held in reserve, realized the only place with fresh air would be near the German lines, as the winds would blow the gas away from there, (following the basic principles of gas warfare: infantry can only quickly occupy clean areas; therefore, the occupied areas would have to be uncontaminated.) The Canadians fought through using urine-soaked handkerchiefs as primitive gas masks, (for the ammonia in the urine would react with the chlorine, neutralizing it and the water would dissolve the chlorine allowing the soldiers to breathe.) Although the battle was considered a stalemate, the act of reestablishing the front lines in such harsh conditions earned the Canadians much respect and foreshadowed their use later in the war as assault troops, though 6,000 of these "originals" were killed or wounded from a strength of 10,000.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Ypres

1918    British naval forces attempt to sink block-ships in the German U-boat bases at the Battle of Zeeburgge.

1931    Egypt signs treaty of friendship with Iraq.

1944    Allies launch major attack against the Japanese in Hollandia, New Guinea.

1954    

The Senate Army-McCarthy hearings begin.

Early in 1954, the U.S. Army accused Senator Joseph R. McCarthy (Republican, Wisconsin), and his chief counsel, Roy Cohn, of pressuring the Army to give preferential treatment to former McCarthy aide and friend of Cohn's, G. David Schine. McCarthy claimed that the accusation was made in bad faith, in retaliation for his questioning of Brigadier General Ralph W. Zwicker the previous year. A special committee, under the chairmanship of Senator Karl Mundt, was appointed to adjudicate these conflicting charges, and the hearings opened on April 22, 1954. The hearings were televised, and many believe that they contributed significantly to McCarthy's subsequent decline in popularity.

A month before the hearings began, TIME featured a cover story March 22, 1954, with Cohn & Schine pictured and subtitled, "The Army got its orders." Ten years after the hearings, in 1964, the documentary film Point of Order! was released, which consists of 93 minutes of footage selected from the 187 hours of kinescope that covered the hearings.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army-McCarthy_Hearings

1955    

Congress orders all U.S. coins to bear the motto "In God We Trust."

Today, the motto is a source of some heated contention. One side argues that the First Amendment and a need for a "separation of church and state" requires that the motto be removed from all public use, including on coins and paper money. They argue that religious freedom includes the right to believe in the non-existence of God and that the gratuitous use of the motto infringes upon the religious rights of the unreligious. They argue that any endorsement of God by the government is unconstitutional. Many also argue that the motto, along with the addition of "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance, was made official simply because of US opposition to the atheistic Soviet Union, the main adversary of the United States at the time.

The other side of the argument states that the separation of church and state means that Congress shall not impose a state religion on the populace, and that the separation of church and state is a legislative invention not intended by the founding fathers. They argue that religious language is used in the founding documents, such as "Nature and Nature's God" in the Declaration of Independence; although opponents point out that the Declaration is simply a historical, rather than official, document of the US Governmentmoreover the emphasis on "Nature" indicates a naturalistic Deist, rather than Christian, philosophy. The Constitution lacks such references.

Likewise, the Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the Senate and signed by John Adams, has become the subject of controversy because of this section:

    "As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquillity of Musselmen - and as the said states never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Interestingly, Theodore Roosevelt argued against the requirement of the motto on coinage, not because of a lack of faith in God, but because he thought it sacrilegious to put the name of the Deity on something so common as money. This argument is rarely used by either side today.

Whichever side of the argument is ultimately victorious will be determined at some point in the future, either by judicial decision, legislation or constitutional amendment; but at this point use of the motto on circulating coinage is required by law. Some activists have been known to cross out the motto on paper money as a form of protest. While several laws come into play, the act of May 18, 1908 is most often cited as requiring the motto (even though the cent and nickel were excluded from that law, and the nickel did not have the motto added until 1938). Since 1938, all coins have borne the motto. The use of the motto was permitted, but not required, by an 1873 law. The motto was added to paper money over a period from 1957 to 1966.

1995    

In Africa, Rwandan troops kill thousands of Hutu refugees in Kibeho.

On April 6, 1994, the French Mystre-Falcon jet carrying the Rwandan President Juvnal Habyarimana and Cyprien Ntaryamira, the Hutu president of Burundi, was shot down as it prepared to land in Kigali. Both presidents were killed when the plane crashed.

The exact responsibility for this act is not known. At the time, Juvnal Habyarimana was involved in talks that aimed at sharing power with the Rwandese Patriotic Front. U.N. investigators initially suspected that Hutu extremists within Habyarimana's family circle had killed him, fearing he would concede too much power to the RPF in talks.

However, some recent testimony claims that blame lies with members of the RPF, possibly with the help of foreign mercenaries. In January 2000 three Tutsi informants told the United Nations that they were part of an elite strike team that carried out the assassination of the Hutu president. They told UN investigators in 1997 that the killing of Juvnal Habyarimana was carried out "with the assistance of a foreign government" under the overall command of Paul Kagame. They claimed that the RPF members had opted to kill Habyarimana out of dissatisfaction with the slow pace of the talks[citation needed].

Specific allegations were made in a November 2005 book by Lieutenant Abdul Ruzibiza [5], in which Kagame is accused of directly planning Habyarimana's assassination in a meeting at RPF headquarters in Mulindi (Byumba, northern Rwanda) on March 31, 1994.

Regardless of the identity of its perpetrators, the dramatic airplane attack was an unambiguous signal to all Rwandans. Those who were going to kill knew what they had to do; and the Tutsi and the moderate Hutu understood at once that they would be attacked.

On the nights of April 6 and 7 the staff of the Rwandan Armed Forces (FAR) and Colonel Bagosora clashed verbally with the UNAMIR (United Nations Assistance Mission For Rwanda) Force Commander General Romo Dallaire, who pointed out the legal authority of the Prime Minister, Agathe Uwilingiyimana, to take the control of the situation as outlined in Arusha Accords. Colonel Bagosora disputed the authority. General Dallaire decided to give an escort of UNAMIR personnel to Mrs. Uwilingiyimana to protect her overnight and to allow her to send a calming message on the radio the next morning. By then, the presidential guard occupied the radio station and Mrs. Uwilingiyimana had to cancel her speech. In the middle of the day, she was assassinated by the presidential guard. The ten Belgian UNAMIR soldiers sent to protect her were later found killed (they had been captured and tortured to death).

Other moderate officials favourable to the Arusha Accords were quickly assassinated. Faustin Twagiramungu escaped execution as he was passed to the safety of UNAMIR.

As though the assassination of Juvenal Habyarimana was a signal, military and militia groups began rounding up and killing all Tutsis they could capture as well as the political moderates irrespective of their ethnic backgrounds. (The movie Hotel Rwanda dramatizes this as a coded radio broadcast instructing Hutus to "cut the tall trees"). Large numbers of opposition politicians were also murdered. Many nations evacuated their nationals from Kigali and closed their embassies as violence escalated. National radio urged people to stay in their homes, and the government-funded station RTLM broadcast vitriolic attacks against Tutsis and Hutu moderates. Hundreds of roadblocks were set up by the militia in the capital Kigali and around the country. Lieutenant-General Dallaire and UNAMIR, escorting Tutsis in Kigali, were unable to do anything as Hutus kept escalating the violence and even started targeting, via RTLM, UNAMIR personnel and Lieutenant-General Dallaire.

The killing swiftly spread from Kigali to all corners of the country; between April 6 and the beginning of July, a genocide of unprecedented swiftness officially left 937,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus (some estimates pin the number at or a little over 1,000,000) dead at the hands of organized bands of militias. One such massacre occurred at Nyarubuye. Even ordinary citizens were called on by local officials and government-sponsored radio to kill their neighbours and those who refused to kill were often killed themselves. "Either you took part in the massacres or you were massacred yourself," said one Hutu who was forced to take part. The president's MRND party was implicated in organizing many aspects of the genocide.

Most of the victims were killed in their villages or in towns, often by their neighbours and fellow villagers. The militia members mostly killed their victims by chopping them up with machetes, although some army units shot and killed the Tutsis and moderate Hutus. In some towns the victims were forcibly crammed into churches and school buildings, where Hutu extremist gangs then massacred them. In June 1994 about 3000 Tutsis sought refuge in a Catholic church in Kivumu. Local Interahamwe then used bulldozers supplied by the local police to knock down the church building. People who tried to escape were hacked down with machetes.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide


Born on April 22

1451    Isabella I of Castile, Queen of Spain, patron of Christopher Columbus.
1707    Henry Fielding, English novelist (Tom Jones).
1724    Immanuel Kant, German philosopher.
1870    Vladimir Ilich Lenin (Vladimir Ilich Ulyanov), leader of the Bolshevik Revolution (1917) and first head of the U.S.S.R.
1873    Ellen Glassgow, American novelist.
1876    O.E. Rolvaag, novelist (Giants in the Earth).
1899    Vladimir Nabokov, Russian novelist (Lolita).
1904    J. Robert Oppenheimer, physicist, director of the Manhattan Project.
1916    Yehudi Menuhin, violinist.
1918    Robert Wadlow, the world's tallest man (8'11.1").
1922    Charles Mingus, jazz bassist.
1943    Louise Gluck, Pulitzer Prize-winning poet.

http://www.historynet.com/tih/tih0422/
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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2006 at 12:04

Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

Vladimir Ilich Ulyanov, better known as Lenin (one of his many many nicknames), was born today, in 1870.

Yes he took the nickname Lenin from the Lena river in Siberia where he became a revolutionary.

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2006 at 13:33
Lenin, great puppet of Sverdlov...
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2006 at 14:05
traitor who was sent by Germans to Russia to make disorder and to let Germans win on the eastern front.
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2006 at 15:37

Well, The Russian Revolution of 1917 was probably the most important political event of 20.century,so Lenin should be taken into account considering this fact.

At first,I agree, he may seem traitor to his country by granting a lot of parts of the dominant Tsar class,or should I say his country...?

But WWI was not the struggle of the Russian people for survival.....But a struggle for the interests of the Russian  dominant class..

It was those Russian people outside the dominant class who suffered from war,hunger.

Did you know that The German Kaiser and the English King were cousins?And The Russian Tsar war had also some ties to these two I guess..So it was not the war for survival but a kind of competition in the big family.what the hell did the russian people have to do with this war?

The Russian withdrawl of the war was for the common good of the people.

I perefer Lenin's USSR to any period of the Imperial Tsars.And I guess you,as a Polish friend,would prefer vthe same

 

 

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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2006 at 15:53
that bastard

I think its a common misconception that peasants lived were better off after revolution than before...Soviet Poropaganda has done an excellent job
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Apr-2006 at 17:35

The range and influence of Soviet propaganda is one of the greatest achievemnts of Soviet Union. It influences people's minds even long time after the fall of Soviet Union. Even students of modern turkish diplomatic studies are still beliving in it

"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2006 at 03:02

One lesson well understood in both Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia is that propaganda is most effective when it is backed by terror.But there is a big difference between Lenin and Stalin.Lenin himself urged people to keep Stalin away from power in his last days.I personally dislike Stalin too...

As for prefering  between the Soviet Union and Imperial Russia

my friend,

Wasnt it The Imperial Russia which took part in the partition of Poland through the 18.century-1772, 1793, 1795?

Wasnt it the imperial policy of Russia which pioneered the fall of the Ottoman Empire?

Mosquito,Imperial Russia was the arch enemy of both of our historyoland and Ottoman Empire.

Plus the city,where I was born, was under the imperial russian empire between 1878-1920(till bolsheviks).Another reason for me to choose the soviets over the imperial russia.

 

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  Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2006 at 03:26

quote:moscowito wrote:The range and influence of Soviet propaganda is one of the greatest achievemnts of Soviet Union. It influences people's minds even long time after the fall of Soviet Union. Even students of modern turkish diplomatic studies are still beliving in it.

propaganda is used by all mordern societies. in many democratic countries propaganda is called :free press ,media or what else. that's a very special kind of propaganda and most of the people do not recognice it. press or other media under the influence of industry and companies are whispering 24 hours the melody of free market and free thoughts.i think you have to learn much cause after only 1 1/2 decades of freedom, you obviously didn't notice that there is no big difference between the propagnda of now and then. ok,maybe today it's more clever than the meaty words of  soviet propaganda.



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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2006 at 14:17
"I perefer Lenin's USSR to any period of the Imperial Tsars.And I guess you,as a Polish friend,would prefer vthe same"

Don't please use a smiley after a sentence of that type, i felt a bit nausiated for a second.

"propaganda is used by all mordern societies. in many democratic countries propaganda is called :free press ,media or what else. that's a very special kind of propaganda and most of the people do not recognice it. press or other media under the influence of industry and companies are whispering 24 hours the melody of free market and free thoughts.i think you have to learn much cause after only 1 1/2 decades of freedom, you obviously didn't notice that there is no big difference between the propagnda of now and then. ok,maybe today it's more clever than the meaty words of  soviet propaganda."

Soviet propaganda is an entirely different ball game. Today in the west where propaganda is used to poison the minds of people, you always have opposition, that means sides to choose. Sovet propaganda gives nothing of the sort, you are an apolitical drone for the elite politbureau, nothing more, you have no mind of your own.  You had no hippie movement in the USSR, you were nothing but mere tools for the commies. Individualism was hammered down in totality. During its final days this might have slowed down in the USSR, but the point remains.
There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2006 at 14:47

Today in the west where propaganda is used to poison the minds of people, you always have opposition, that means sides to choose.

Yes, in most western countries, you can choose between the capitalist-imperialist-corporate party which opposes gay marriage, and the capitalist-imperialist-corporate party which supports gay marriage...

In more civilised Western countries, you have even more choices like the racist-capitalist party, fascist-capitalist party, liberal-capitalist-party-which-calls-itself socialist...

As to propaganda. A citizen living in a Western country is being bombarded with more propaganda than any other human being in history. Of course, this propaganda is usually not for a political cause, nor for the benefit of a government, but nevertheless, it is brainwashing of the most despicable kind. This propaganda of the corporation and capitalism is better known as 'advertising'. Propaganda of corporations.

Most Westerners are so brainwashed that they haven't noticed the similarity between advertising and propaganda until they read what I have written just now. Western people are so brainwashed that they pay extra money to display logos, i.e. to turn themselves into walking ad-boards. There are people who tattoo themselves with logos. Kids murder their parents because they dont buy them designer sneakers. Westerners believe that brands define their character and lifestyle. This is Western 'individualism'...

As someone who knows a thing or two about propaganda, I always find it funny when Westerners claim that people are 'brainwashed' by Soviet propaganda (which is non-exixtent in the West anyway).

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2006 at 14:59
so why don't you join Al-Kaida then and live the life of a poor-like-dirt rebel in the mountains somwehre between here and nowhere? what are you actually using at the moment? don't tell me an apple or microsoft, what operating system do you use, Microsoft or Linux?
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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2006 at 08:05

Originally posted by Kalevinpoeg

Don't please use a smiley after a sentence of that type, i felt a bit nausiated for a second.

For a second can't you be unneurotic when it comes to the Soviet Union?

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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2006 at 15:32

"Yes, in most western countries, you can choose between the capitalist-imperialist-corporate party which opposes gay marriage, and the capitalist-imperialist-corporate party which supports gay marriage...

In more civilised Western countries, you have even more choices like the racist-capitalist party, fascist-capitalist party, liberal-capitalist-party-which-calls-itself socialist...

As to propaganda. A citizen living in a Western country is being bombarded with more propaganda than any other human being in history. Of course, this propaganda is usually not for a political cause, nor for the benefit of a government, but nevertheless, it is brainwashing of the most despicable kind. This propaganda of the corporation and capitalism is better known as 'advertising'. Propaganda of corporations.

Most Westerners are so brainwashed that they haven't noticed the similarity between advertising and propaganda until they read what I have written just now. Western people are so brainwashed that they pay extra money to display logos, i.e. to turn themselves into walking ad-boards. There are people who tattoo themselves with logos. Kids murder their parents because they dont buy them designer sneakers. Westerners believe that brands define their character and lifestyle. This is Western 'individualism'...

As someone who knows a thing or two about propaganda, I always find it funny when Westerners claim that people are 'brainwashed' by Soviet propaganda (which is non-exixtent in the West anyway)."


Or you can choose the way you have, you are a prime example yourself that opposition has more choises then the ones you named above. In the USSR you would only have been blocked from this forum, fired from your job probably for saying anti-government words or terms after Stalin. In earlier times you would just have disappeared from the face of the earth.

In the east, the hippies would have been run over by tanks.

I agree that brainwashing in the west is much more acceptable to people because it makes life much easier to live in: terrorists bad, we good, go buy stuff and be happy, elect another Bush with different letters in his name and let him attack Iran.


"For a second can't you be unneurotic when it comes to the Soviet Union?"


Not when such a comparison is brought up to my face.

There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 10:18

so why don't you join Al-Kaida then and live the life of a poor-like-dirt rebel in the mountains somwehre between here and nowhere?

Only after you join the NPD. 

Or you can choose the way you have, you are a prime example yourself that opposition has more choises then the ones you named above. In the USSR you would only have been blocked from this forum, fired from your job probably for saying anti-government words or terms after Stalin. In earlier times you would just have disappeared from the face of the earth.

I am not a prime example of anything. You forget I am from Turkey, a capitalist NATO client, where the opposition is killed even today.

In the east, the hippies would have been run over by tanks.

Don't invent atrocities. Ravers are being beaten brutally by the police today in the Czech Republic. All kinds of atrocities are happening in capitalist countries all around the world.

As Brecht wrote, food comes first, morals follow. In rich imperialist countries of the west, the population is happy, so the ruling class is relatively secure. They can afford to give real opposition some freedom of movement. But history shows whenever they feel threatened they start the oppression. Read up on McCarty, Japanese internment camps, Guantanomo, etc. A Muslim preacher was given life imprisonment in the USA recently, because he committed treason by telling people to go to Afghanistan to fight against the US.

Freedom world, oh yeah.

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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 12:37
"I am not a prime example of anything. You forget I am from Turkey, a capitalist NATO client, where the opposition is killed even today."

Although you would not have been able to protest in London if it had been a communist country on the scale of the USSR, thats a simple fact.

"Don't invent atrocities. Ravers are being beaten brutally by the police today in the Czech Republic. All kinds of atrocities are happening in capitalist countries all around the world."

I really am not, everybody knows the uprisings in the USSR ended up bloody whenever the people rose up. It is probably they were so few, people were afraid of the power institutions, that they go largely unnoticed.

"As Brecht wrote, food comes first, morals follow. In rich imperialist countries of the west, the population is happy, so the ruling class is relatively secure. They can afford to give real opposition some freedom of movement. But history shows whenever they feel threatened they start the oppression. Read up on McCarty, Japanese internment camps, Guantanomo, etc. A Muslim preacher was given life imprisonment in the USA recently, because he committed treason by telling people to go to Afghanistan to fight against the US.

Freedom world, oh yeah."


Yes, there is a thought here. The protests of people and opposition are largely let to evolve into something the people think affects the country to their benefit, but acctually just paints it over. This could simply be seen in the US where the foreign policy hasn't changed from 1945. to 2006. in any manner, only areas that are important to conquer have altered here and there. So i don't think the protest movement has had any significant effect - the elite brings the GI's home whenever the oil runs out anyway. This "ghost oppostion" is a discussable topic.


There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2006 at 14:12
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

Only after you join the NPD. 

sorry i'm already member of the PDS, i guess they wont allow double-membership...

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2012 at 20:13

Happy birthday LeninStar
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