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Persian Hero, Unknown Martyr

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  Quote kingofmazanderan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Persian Hero, Unknown Martyr
    Posted: 08-Jun-2006 at 15:44
The Baha'i faith is the last Religion allowed by Allah or God on this earth.  Although most Religious Islamic people think it is either not a true religion or a branch of Islam.  I disagree with both.
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2006 at 08:32
Originally posted by Panj-Delaavaraan

Fighting to liberate your country and kill the invaders is not committing crimes.  Those who conquer and force their will on a nation are the ones that commit crimes.
 
And since when was Ali in Iran before Islam?  These occurred after Islam came into being.
 
omg not again with the "forced you into Islam speech",Dead
 
anyway, about your Heroes,
 
 
don't forget Persian heroes who killed Darius III and Yazdegerd II (both killed on the "run" after shamefully lost their whole Empires in very few Battles).
 
you and people think like you may consider the assassins who killed Calips Umar, Uthman and Ali as Persian heroes,
 
well those Three are/were considered Heroes and great Caliphs by hundreds of Millions of people at present and hundreds of millions of people in the past.
 
even in Iran, i don't think you would dare to swear at  Imam Ali raa in the Streets of Tehran.
 
so basically many Iranians i guess  who are the majority Don't  share that opinion with you ( which in my opinion is good thing Big smile )
 
 
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  Quote Nestorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2006 at 03:56

Greetings all, I'm familiar with Babek, but indirectly.

As a Byzantine specialist, I came across the Khurramites when after the death of Babek, a large number of them found refuge in Byzantine territory under Emperor Theophilus. The leader of these refugees, Nasir adopted the name of Theophobus and married a relative of the Emperor's. However, later he rebelled against the Emperor which was suppressed. The soldiers who took part in the rebellion were forgiven and agreed to be dispersed throughout the Empire. That means that a small proportion of Greece's population comes are Iranian!!

Was Babek anti-Islamic? Weren't the Khurramites, a heretical sect of Islam? Someone please shed more light on the Khurramites please. Clap

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  Quote Fizzil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2006 at 11:24
The khurramites were not a heretical sect but they were zoroastrians, they were a resistance front in azerbaijan, or someplace around that area.
 
Babak sought to revive the sassanid empire after Abu muslim was executed/assassinated, but his rebellion was put down and he was executed.
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  Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 06:59
babak was a great hero who fought against wild barbarian invaders. whatever he had done to those barbarians was nothing when they destroy a mighty and rich empire.
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  Quote Nestorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 11:46
Are u guys Iranian Muslims or non-Muslim Iranians?
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  Quote Ave1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 20:36
Alhamdulilah, I, as a person of Iranic origin, declare that I am firmly Muslim.  I disassociate myself from the Murtads and those Iranic individuals who bad mouth Islam.

With that said, I'd like to clear any doubt that in large portions of Iranian lands, Islam was welcomed. 

Those who precariously allege that Islaam was "forced" upon the Persian people should read and brush up on their history on how Islaam spread amongst the people who welcomed it.  Although, the ruling elite may have not whole-heardtedly converted, many Iranic people embraced Islam, as I will prove.

Firstly, let us examine Zoroastrianism during the advent of Islaam.  Admitingly, It should be noted that the religion was popular with the ruling elite.  In contrast, the working class along with the general population resented the enormous amount of influence the Zoroastrian priests wielded. 

Moreover, many adherents of other religoins, including Nestorianism, Judaism and Buddhists who utterly resented the Zoroastrian ruling elite given the unfair treatment they were receiving saw Islam as a new hope.  As Caetani in his book "Annali dell Islam" noted that the hatred against the ruling elite were so bitter that caused the Arab conquest to appear as a deliverance.  (ibid, pg. 910-11)

Furthermore,  during Khusrau II's reign the persecution of Christians living in Persian lands were enormously high given that he suffered a defeated under the Roman Emperor.  This led to more persecution, resulting in many of them happily welcoming the Muslim creed. 

More importantly, Islam spread because of the inabilities of the rigid Zoroastrian creed itself.   Many townsfolk especially the industrial class and the artists "whose occupations made them impure according to the Zoroastrian creed, because in the pursuance of their trade or occupations they defiled fire, earth, or water..." wholeheartedly accepted Islam without any compulsion or force.  (Spread of Islam, pg. 208)

In addition, Imam Husayn (radiallah ahnu - may Allah be pleased with him) - the grandson of the Messenger of Allah, Muhammad (sall Allahu alay wa salam) married the last Sassanid emperor's daughter,  Shahbanu.  At that juncture, many Iranian peoples saw themselves feeling fairly patriotic, welcomed Islam, and many claim that this reason spurred some Persians to be devoted to Shi'ism. 

And although some will allege that many fire-temples were destroyed after the advent of Islam, I say, fire-temples were still found till the 10th century, 300 years after the coming of Islam in various parts of what is now known as Iraq, Iran and Azerbaijan.   In fact, al-Shahristani even mentions fire-temples in Baghdad itself during the 12 century! (Kitab al-milal wa'-nihal)

In light of these facts, it is silly to attribute that the Iranian peoles were violently converted.  Moreover, one of the greatest and noble Persian rulers in History, Saman Khuda, the true father of the Tajik nation, whom Tajikistan today, firmly respects (infact they even named their currency after him - Somoni, and have monuments of him across Dushanbe) converted to Islam without any force and led one of the most popular Persian-Muslim dynasties in History - the Samanid Empire to rule large portions of what is now known as Iran, Afghanistan and Tajikistan.

To think that Iranic peoples were forced to accept Islaam is not only fallacious it has no historical merit.  What's more is that I have yet to cover the other Iranian peoples like the Baluchis and Pashtuns who accepted Islaam similarly via missionary work as well.

It should be noted that my post a tip of the iceberg with this matter, and I will address and answer any further inquiries.  If one would like to contend with the facts of this post, please reply to each of the above points instead of concocting a fallacious argument like "oh you follow Islam because your parents do." 

Speaking of Iranic heroes, here is my list..

al-Bukhari
Abu Haneefah al-Koofi al-Kabuli
al-Tirmidhi
al-Haakim al-Nishapuri
Abu Dawud al-Sijistani
An-Nisai
Ishaq ibn Rahwaih
Imam al-Bayhaqi al-Nishapuri
ar-Razi
Ibn Khuzaima
adh-Dhuhli al-Khorasani
Imam at-Tabarani al-Isfahani

may Allah have mercy on all of them.






Edited by Ave1 - 22-Jul-2006 at 22:16
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  Quote Nestorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 02:41
Murtad means "apostate"???
 
Are Iranians who keep the Zoroastarian faith considered Murtads now that most Iranians are Muslims?
 
From Western Scholars, I too have read about the strength of Zoroastarianism among the elite classes but of weaker adherence amongst the Proletarian.
 
Although I have to note that Nestorianianism's strongest base was still in Iran where most clerical appointments were. At one point, the authority of the Nestorian Catholicos was acknowledged from Cyprus to Guangzhou (CHinese coast); as far north as Siberia to as far south as Pegu (Burma) and a lot of these leaders in these churches were appointed from Iran.
 
The decline of the Nestorians finally came when Timurlane ravaged and destroyed most of their numbers in his campaigns in Iran.
 
Nestorians were notable as medical physicians to the Abbasid Caliphs.
 
PS. You didn't add Firdausi to ur list??
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 03:42
I think his point was that the above made great contributions to islamic studies, while being iranian.
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  Quote shayan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 06:32
thanks panj :D never knew the name of the killer of killer aka ali
 
And Iranians before any religion any time any day...


Edited by shayan - 23-Jul-2006 at 06:34
Iran parast
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 11:44
Originally posted by Ave1



And although some will allege that many fire-temples were destroyed after the advent of Islam, I say, fire-temples were still found till the 10th century, 300 years after the coming of Islam in various parts of what is now known as Iraq, Iran and Azerbaijan.   In fact, al-Shahristani even mentions fire-temples in Baghdad itself during the 12 century! (Kitab al-milal wa'-nihal)

 
There were still Zoroastrians in many parts fo Iran up until the 18 century I believe.  The Safavids and Mirwais Khan Hotaki  attacked and killed many Zoroastrians during their reign.
 
 
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 20:27
There were still Zoroastrians in many parts fo Iran up until the 18 century I believe.  The Safavids and Mirwais Khan Hotaki  attacked and killed many Zoroastrians during their reign.
There are still Zoroastrians in Iran. Some of whom are even on this board
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  Quote shayan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 12:59
you can also convert back to zoroastrian religion :) 
Iran parast
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 13:54
And the way this Budbhkt, or whatever his name is, is described is impossible.
 
If he had killed 500,000 people, there would be no muslims in Iran today. Half a million people would destroy a society.
 
ANd if they had cut off his leg, then he would be dead before he fell to the ground, of shock and loss of blood.
 
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 17:57
Budbkht?  Are you trolling?  I don't see how you can get Babak mixed with Budbkht unless you have some cognitive deficiency.
 
The mongols despatched millions (literally) from Iran and Iran at the time of the Sassanids had between 8-12 million inhabitants according to taxation records, so at least just as much during Babak's time.  But I do agree that 500k may be a little exaggerated by his enemies to make him look worse.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2006 at 00:51
And how long did it take Iran to recover?
500,000 for a minority would be disaterous. And the way he is described as being killed is impossible as well.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2006 at 14:48

Not long, about 100 years, until Timur did the same, also killing millions. Some parts of the coutnry never recovered such as Tus, but again after 100 years Iran was revived.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2006 at 01:04
Iran was never again a power.
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  Quote Ave1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2006 at 10:47
Originally posted by shayan

you can also convert back to zoroastrian religion :) 


Thanks but NO thanks. 

'preciate the offer, but you can certainly keep it.





I am pleased with Allah as my lord, Islam as my religion and Muhammad (sall Allahu alay wa salam) as my prophet.

Radheetu billaahi Rabban, wa bil-'Islaami deenan, wa bi-Muhammadin (sall Allahu alay wa salam) Nabiyyan


Edited by Ave1 - 06-Aug-2006 at 10:56
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2006 at 11:46
Originally posted by Sparten

Iran was never again a power.
 
Are you kidding? You shouldn't make such ignorant comments.
 
Yes it was, Safavids, then Afsharids, then Zandis, then even teh Qajars, all of them inflicted humiliating defeats on their enemies (Russian Empire, Ottomans, MUghals, Uzbeks etc) and resored Iran's territorial integrity after brief moments of disruption.  What remains today is the core of what the Safavids built up.
 
 
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