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Just how could Persia lose to Greece?

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Shield-of-Dardania View Drop Down
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Just how could Persia lose to Greece?
    Posted: 01-Apr-2010 at 23:58

Ok Son, tell us then. We'd like to know. I, for one, besides being a neutral observer, am always eager to learn and share. You didn't read my earlier post about the Persians putting up a tough fight, did you?

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  Quote SonOfIran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2010 at 15:33
Originally posted by Shield-of-Dardania

Ok Son, tell us then. We'd like to know. I, for one, besides being a neutral observer, am always eager to learn and share. You didn't read my earlier post about the Persians putting up a tough fight, did you?

 
After Darius III realized Alexander had taken the route towards the Tigris, he left Babylon and arrived at central Assyria. Darius III knew the Macedonians would arrive sooner or later, so he looked for a broad battle field for his numerically superior army to form, something that did not happen at Issus. Darius let Alexaner march unhindered, so as to ensure that the Macedonians would not march off to somewhere else. Alexander had done exactly what Darius III wanted him to do. By leaving the fordable stretches of the Euphrates and the Tigris practically unguarded, the Persians had managed to guide the enemy to the battlefield of their choice. Darius was completely in command of the situation and seemed guaranteed of victory. Alexander foolishly fell into Darius's trap.
 
Prior to the battle, the Persians were highly demoralized due to astronomical signs seen in the sky.
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  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2010 at 18:06

That's most enlightening, Son. So, Darius III had the bigger army. He even managed to manipulate Alexander to move to a place he wanted, the way he wanted. And he still lost the battle.

Vast lesson to be learnt in there. That is: kings and generals can never, never allow themselves to afford the luxury of succumbing to the unreliablity of superstitious hocus pocus. What always works are strategy, tactics, commitment and solid preparations. As for Luck, the Lady has also been often known to have a soft spot for those with the best strategy, tactics, commitment and preparations. As well as unshakeable self-belief and belief in the might of men, rather than a blind faith in bits of stuff far up in the sky.
 
Superstition should be only a tool, at best, to be exploited, for the purpose of galvanising the support of the lay people and low ranking soldiers. To expedite the implementation of decisions already firmly made by kings and high ranking generals. Maybe Alexander also had better talent in that aspect, eh?


Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 05-Apr-2010 at 18:18
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  Quote Hourosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2014 at 12:40
I wouldn't say Persia simply lost, In the end even after the war years later Persia regained control of all the territories it had lost, and the Greeks became slaves to Persian money while they were asking Persia for help whenever they fought against each other hell they might have even been in a state where they were clients to Persia . And please don't relate Alexanders conquest,that's another story
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2014 at 14:04
Because Alexander's army was inside Persia also!It was religious war similar like crusaders wars.In the same time it was the time of Rulers=Kings.Nations came after capitalism had come all around.
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  Quote Mighty Marduk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2014 at 11:48
Originally posted by Hourosh

I wouldn't say Persia simply lost, In the end even after the war years later Persia regained control of all the territories it had lost, and the Greeks became slaves to Persian money while they were asking Persia for help whenever they fought against each other hell they might have even been in a state where they were clients to Persia . And please don't relate Alexanders conquest,that's another story

Forgive my ignorance, but I think that you are wrong.

Wheter the Persians regained their stuff afterwards or not is fairly irrelevant to the question if they lost. You win and lose wars by reaching or not reaching the political goals you set out to war for. As far as I know Persia did not manage to reach its goals, the Greeks apparently did, and so the Persians lost the war.

The Greeks were never slaves to Persian money. The thing was that the Persians started to wield influence among the Greeks in a more refined and subtile manner than sending massive armies against them, and the with the warlike advantage of the Greeks compared to the wealth of the Persian Empire this proved to be very effective. At no point was any polis, that I am aware of, give up its independence to Persia.
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  Quote Hourosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2015 at 19:28
Originally posted by Mighty Marduk

Originally posted by Hourosh

I wouldn't say Persia simply lost, In the end even after the war years later Persia regained control of all the territories it had lost, and the Greeks became slaves to Persian money while they were asking Persia for help whenever they fought against each other hell they might have even been in a state where they were clients to Persia . And please don't relate Alexanders conquest,that's another story

Forgive my ignorance, but I think that you are wrong.

Wheter the Persians regained their stuff afterwards or not is fairly irrelevant to the question if they lost. You win and lose wars by reaching or not reaching the political goals you set out to war for. As far as I know Persia did not manage to reach its goals, the Greeks apparently did, and so the Persians lost the war.

The Greeks were never slaves to Persian money. The thing was that the Persians started to wield influence among the Greeks in a more refined and subtile manner than sending massive armies against them, and the with the warlike advantage of the Greeks compared to the wealth of the Persian Empire this proved to be very effective. At no point was any polis, that I am aware of, give up its independence to Persia.

Good point, but it seems to me both sides didn't reach their finals goals, Although Greece did gain the upper hand for a while. I just have to settle with the Persians eventually claiming authority over the Greeks in ways that surpassed even Darius and Xerxes.


Edited by Hourosh - 01-Mar-2015 at 20:27
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