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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Assyria
    Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 10:21

That's true. The actual people today who are the decendents of the Assyrians are now Maronites, Syraics or have simply merged with other peoples.

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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 17:27
We know that the name "Assyria" continued to be in use to designate the greater part of northern Mesopotamia, after the demise of the Assyrian Empire, up to the Islamic period.  The majority population of the region was Aramaean, since about 1000 BC.  The Assyrians, in their conquest of the region, encountered countless Aramaean tribes and states.  It was the policy of the Assyrians to uproot a portion of those populations back into Assyria itself.  Hence, after some 300 years of such a policy it became inevitable that, at first, the Assyrian language was adopting Aramaic words and syntax, but eventually Assyria became Aramaic-speaking.  The rest of northern Mesopotamia remained Aramaic.  With the name Assyria stuck to northern Mesopotamia, its Aramaean population saw themselves as "Assyrians", much in the same way that the name of "Roman" remained stuck with the eastern portion of the Roman Empire despite the fall of Rome itself.
 
As for the modern "Assyrian" language, itself, it is as noted that the population of northern Mesopotamia was mostly Aramaic speaking, yet dominated by an Assyrian state.  It thus became inevitable that Akkadian (the language of the Assyrians) would become an influence on Mesopotamian Aramaic.  Imperial Aramaic was the result.  Since the region remained "Assyria", we have "Assyrians" speaking Aramaic.  Most modern "Assyrians" cannot claim true Assyrian origin, in the same way that most easterners could not have come from Rome.
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  Quote Atourian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 13:44
Originally posted by Sharrukin

In all probability, most of the modern-day "Assyrians"  are so-called because their Aramaean ancestors lived in "Assyria" in the extended geographical sense of the word.

If that is true then why do the modern-day Assyrians speak Assyrian Aramaic (Aramaic blended with Akkadian)?
Our earth is degenerate in these latter days; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; the end of the world is evidently approaching.
- Assyrian clay tablet 2800 B.C
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2006 at 07:20

The Kur/Boreas correspondence was Kur "mtn/undwor" ~ Sanskrit giris "mtn" ~  Greek  Boreas  "nth  wind" (the  latter 2 alledgedly cogante  according to Partridge's 'Origins',  with g/b interchange as in cow/bovine.)

The "g/b (or rather the k/b) interchange" only applies to Indo-European languages.  Since Sumerian is not an IE language, that rule does not apply.  As a matter of fact, it was once that that Kassite (another non-IE language) had IE characteristics, in which one of their deities, Buriash, may have had cognates with Greek, Boreas, but the fact that many of their deities bore the element "iash" in such names as Buriash itself, Duniash, Miriash, Suriash, and Ubriash, which meant "earth" in Kassite shows a completely different pattern from IE. 

The list is not that subjective (if I can help it), the similarities in small details are there whether subjective or not, and my lists are far more comprehensive/exhaustive than all others I've seen which only have 2 or 3 entries like "12 Aesir = 12 Olympians". I have done all numbers from 12 to 1/0 incld 7, 2s, 3s, 10s, 12s see:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10345&am p;am p;am p;PN=1

Nevertheless, there are elements that are subjective, which is all I'm saying.  I can point to some trichotomies in universal IE traditions as expounded by J. P. Mallory in his book In Search of the Indo-Europeans.  At least there is a pattern there.

Did you mean ayin (')not aleph? as in Shin(e/g)ar.

No, I definitely meant aleph.  The hieroglyph which translates to aleph in K3sh is the hieroglyph for "eagle", the first letter in the basic Egyptian "alphabet" or sign G1 in Ermen's Agyptische Grammatik.

Is "land of the living" actually the translation of "Dilmun" since ti(l) = life ?

No.  However, according to Samuel Noah Kramer, the author of The Sumerians:  Their History, Culture, and Character, he makes the case that the legendary Dilmun may be "the land of the living" because, like the "land of the living" the legendary Dilmun was in the east of Sumer ("the place where the sun rises") and that it had "cedars".  The description of Dilmun as having an immortal population of people sounds like an epithet for a "land of the living".

One brief note:  ti (with no "l") can translate to "life"....... or "arrow". 

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2006 at 21:07
I started a separate names correspondnces thread in historical amusements so I won't annoy you with "speculations" here/elsewhere.

The Kur/Boreas correspondence was Kur "mtn/undwor" ~ Sanskrit giris "mtn" ~  Greek  Boreas  "nth  wind" (the  latter 2 alledgedly cogante  according to Partridge's 'Origins',  with g/b interchange as in cow/bovine.)

The list is not that subjective (if I can help it), the similarities in small details are there whether subjective or not, and my lists are far more comprehensive/exhaustive than all others I've seen which only have 2 or 3 entries like "12 Aesir = 12 Olympians". I have done all numbers from 12 to 1/0 incld 7, 2s, 3s, 10s, 12s see:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10345&am p;am p;PN=1

Did you mean ayin (')not aleph? as in Shin(e/g)ar.

Is "land of the living" actually the translation of "Dilmun" since ti(l) = life ?


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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2006 at 07:21

Anciently "island" could mean any of island, continent, coastland, peninsula. The number of nagus differs in various sources but if it is 7 as in that link you gave then this is significant and can't just be limited to merely local tradition: 

7:- remaining horns beast, heads beast, septenary spheres/"stars/planets", holes head, days creation/week, archangels, cities, rivers India/Egypt, sages (Solon), Cainite generations, Pleiades/sisters, Manus, hills Rome, churches, menorah, continents, seas, 777, root races/aeons (ONA), stages Sufism, climate zones, heavens, earths (Hebrew), stages hell Arab, Septuagint, mataras, heads Rugievit, sleepers, G7, Caesars, islands Persephone/Atlantic, headed snake-monster/serpent/dragon (Sumer/EDP), headed serpent (Phoenican), Hathors, spirits, cavern of 7 chambers, wk of yrs, gods invoked at daybreak (Zaire), nitrogenous bases, swords?, Rishis/Prajapatis?, churches Paul (letters), animals ark, Maskim, tones?, vowels, colours, hills pre-dyn Egypt pottery, kings Rome, spheres Mithraism, castes Egypt, stages Steiner, days Babyl flood, against Thebes, stages Tower of Babylon/Borsippa, dwarves, wonders world, yrs Joseph/Tribulation, spurs Meru/circles Patala, karshvars, dispensations.

You realize that some of those items are subjective, right?  So you find "7" items.  Big deal.  How about dualities and trichotomies.  How about "10"s, "12's".?

Kush/Cush is also Akkadian and Hebrew.

By way of derivation from Egyptian. 

What letter(s) does '3' translate as? (I have seen spellings "(vile/wretched) Kush/Kesh").

It is a glottal stop, considered as a consonant by linguists.  Its equivalent in Semitic languages is aleph.  It was used as a vowel, usually "a".  Sometimes, the name is transliterated as Kesh because the hieroglyphs involve only represented the sounds "k" and "sh".  Hence, according to convention, because there is no single hieroglyph which represents "e", Egyptologists use "e" to "fill in the gaps" where a vowel may (or should) be placed in a word.  In the case of the Egyptian word, there was no "u" character in evidence.  The Egyptians could have used more than one "w" hieroglyph to represent the "u" sound but they did not.  Hence, when the Egyptian language evolved into Coptic, the name of Kush bore an "o" sound, so, therefore we know that the original Egyptian word did not have a "u".

What do you think of Kur/Boreas correspondence then since you don't agree with the Kush/Kur one?

What correspondence?......

 also what about Kur/Dur (Kassite)?

Kassite was neither Semitic nor Indo-European.

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Apr-2006 at 00:58
Mmm, I did not realise Curu might be same as Kuru(s).
Anciently "island" could mean any of island, continent, coastland, peninsula. The number of nagus differs in various sources but if it is 7 as in that link you gave then this is significant and can't just be limited to merely local tradition: 

7:- remaining horns beast, heads beast, septenary spheres/"stars/planets", holes head, days creation/week, archangels, cities, rivers India/Egypt, sages (Solon), Cainite generations, Pleiades/sisters, Manus, hills Rome, churches, menorah, continents, seas, 777, root races/aeons (ONA), stages Sufism, climate zones, heavens, earths (Hebrew), stages hell Arab, Septuagint, mataras, heads Rugievit, sleepers, G7, Caesars, islands Persephone/Atlantic, headed snake-monster/serpent/dragon (Sumer/EDP), headed serpent (Phoenican), Hathors, spirits, cavern of 7 chambers, wk of yrs, gods invoked at daybreak (Zaire), nitrogenous bases, swords?, Rishis/Prajapatis?, churches Paul (letters), animals ark, Maskim, tones?, vowels, colours, hills pre-dyn Egypt pottery, kings Rome, spheres Mithraism, castes Egypt, stages Steiner, days Babyl flood, against Thebes, stages Tower of Babylon/Borsippa, dwarves, wonders world, yrs Joseph/Tribulation, spurs Meru/circles Patala, karshvars, dispensations.

Kush/Cush is also Akkadian and Hebrew. What letter(s) does '3' translate as? (I have seen spellings "(vile/wretched) Kush/Kesh"). What do you think of Kur/Boreas correspondence then since you don't agree with the Kush/Kur one? also what about Kur/Dur (Kassite)?
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2006 at 14:16

I thought that the nagus might include names like Dilmun, Magan, Meluhha, Anaku, Gubi, Kur, etc.

No, it does not.  For a description of the "Babylonian World Map" with a diagram, see:

http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/Ancient%20Web%20Pages/103Amo no.html

I found it interesting that the nagus surrounding their world seemed to match the Iranian karshvars surrounding their world. (I also saw a compass point picture of the Indian compass points with Curu as north, but I have not recovered the other compass point place names yet.

It does seem to bare some resemblance to the Iranian conception of the universe, although in the Iranian conception, they are "continents", not "islands".

Perhaps Curu relates to either Kur/Kush or Syria/Suri or Ur??

No.  Kuru was simply the name of the most powerful tribe of the Vedic Indians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map_of_Vedic_India.png

I have absolutely no doubt my Kur/Kush (not Kish) correspondence is right. I discovered a sh/r interchange between Indo-European and Hamito-Semitic quite a while ago:

aner/Nara 'man' = anesh/nasha/Enosh 'man', Aralu/Arali = Sheol, mt Meru = mt Mashu, Kur 'mtn' = Kush 'upper', were 'man' = ish 'man', Ru 'Atlas' = Shu 'Atlas', etc,  though some may be wrong* some are definately right.
<* eg Thule~Sheol~Aralu~Urani, only one if any can be right.>

I've already shown that Egyptian K3sh does not correspond to Sumerian kur.  The only similiarity is the first letter.  That being said, I really don't need to comment on the others.



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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2006 at 03:54
I thought that the nagus might include names like Dilmun, Magan, Meluhha, Anaku, Gubi, Kur, etc.
I found it interesting that the nagus surrounding their world seemed to match the Iranian karshvars surrounding their world. (I also saw a compass point picture of the Indian compass points with Curu as north, but I have not recovered the other compass point place names yet. Perhaps Curu relates to either Kur/Kush or Syria/Suri or Ur??

I have absolutely no doubt my Kur/Kush (not Kish) correspondence is right. I discovered a sh/r interchange between Indo-European and Hamito-Semitic quite a while ago:

aner/Nara 'man' = anesh/nasha/Enosh 'man', Aralu/Arali = Sheol, mt Meru = mt Mashu, Kur 'mtn' = Kush 'upper', were 'man' = ish 'man', Ru 'Atlas' = Shu 'Atlas', etc,  though some may be wrong* some are definately right.
<* eg Thule~Sheol~Aralu~Urani, only one if any can be right.>
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2006 at 03:47

Oops, I forgot something!!!

Does it tie in with Humbaba?

I think it does!!!  When Gilgamesh sets out on his journey to "the Land of the Living" to fell its "cedars" he had to cross "seven mountains".  These were no doubt the same "seven mountains" which the herald of Enmerkar crossed to reach the "Lord of Aratta" (which were probably the Zagros Mts.).  When Gilgamesh reached the "Land of the Living" he encounters Huwawa the guardian of the "Land of the Living" and its cedars. 

 

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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2006 at 03:11

Thats quite interesting/helpful. Tho one thing puzzles me: I have heard that they usually say the cedar mountain was in Amanus/Lebanon area? Does it tie in with Humbaba?

Yes, the reference to a "Cedar Land" in the east has confused some who know about the Lebanon, however, according to the inscriptions of Sargon of Akkad, the region of the Lebanon was called the "Cedar Forest", and the mountains were called the "Silver Mountains", probably the western portion of the Taurus range, two separate designations.  Naram-Sin, however mentions in his inscriptions, "the Amanus, the Cedar Mountain". 

The reality is that there is a region in southwestern Iran which is a region of cedars.  I don't remember the name of the district, and it was Cyrus Shahmiri who told me where they were located. 

Does this counter-clockwise reckoning/4 regions have any connection with the # nagus surrounding their world map centered on Babylon/Eridu?

No.  The "Babylonian World Map" is concerned with a worldview with Babylon as its center.  It comprises "constellations" of real or mythical animals and the location of certain landmarks but nothing showing the ancient names of the "regions" outside of Babylonia.

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2006 at 04:45
Perhaps one of us could start a "similar names" topic/thread in historical amusement sub-forum. I can't comment on 3 of those names since I don't know anything about them, but the name Lebanon is similar (tho not necessarily connected) to Laban (Genesis), Ialebion (myth), Albania (Caucasus), Albania (Balkans), Albany (Scotland), Albion (England), Levant, Libya, Leshan (b/sh interchange/cipher), Lemnos.
Amanus sounds a little similar (tho not necess conn) to Amenti (Egyptian) which is cognate with Imin (Sumerian) and maybe Himinbiorg; similar (tho not necess conn) names Yemen, Mannai, Armanum, Awan.
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2006 at 23:00
Just for entertainment purposes, and as you like exotic unlikely name-connections... what about Portus Amanus, a town mentioned by Roman sources somwhere near where I live and that is suspected (but not confirmed in any way) to be the old parish of Abando, that now is the very center of Bilbao. Does it have anything to do with Lebanon?

(You don't have to answer to this: it's just a personal divagation, I guess).

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2006 at 18:08
Thats quite interesting/helpful. Tho one thing puzzles me: I have heard that they usually say the cedar mountain was in Amanus/Lebanon area? Does it tie in with Humbaba?
Does this counter-clockwise reckoning/4 regions have any connection with the # nagus surrounding their world map centered on Babylon/Eridu?
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2006 at 00:04

I wondered if su-edin and an-edin (no longer have/remember sources) were perhaps renderings of Shushan and Anshan? But, Waddell (and Ragozin) says "Suedin (and Gutium)" (one of 4 regions of their world) is Sumerian rendering of Subartu (one of 4 regions). Some of these names appeared to have the same elements/affixes? (spellings might be slightly worng as only from memory since lost)

This is what I've gathered.  According to Towards the Image of Tammuz, edited by William L. Moran, the end of the Third Ur Dynasty occurred by the joint attack by the Elamites and the Sua people, a mountain tribe located in the vicinity of Susa (AJSL, 1941, 220-221).  They therefore cannot be identified with the Sutians (Kramer, AS xii, 44-45), or with Subir/Subartu (Gelb, Crawford, Falkenstein, and Kramer).

As for the nomenclature of how the Sumerians designated their immediate neighbors, a hint comes in the form of a tradition of a legendary Sumerian king named Lugalanemundu, king of Adab, also mentioned in the Sumerian Kinglist.  According to the composition, he claimed to have received tribute from "Cedar Mountain" Land, Elam, Marhashi, Gutium, Subir, Martu, Sutium, and Eanna.  We already know that Elam and Marhashi were in the "east", hence "Cedar Mountain" Land must have also been in the east.  Gutium was in the northeast. Subir was in the north.  Martu and Sutium were in the "west", and Eanna (another name for Uruk) was in the "south".  We thus have a counter-clockwise reckoning of the lands (excluding Uruk) adjacent to Sumer.  Another thing we can obviously distinguish is that "Gutium", "Subir", and "Sutium" were understood to be different lands. 



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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2006 at 19:56
I wondered if su-edin and an-edin (no longer have/remember sources) were perhaps renderings of Shushan and Anshan? But, Waddell (and Ragozin) says "Suedin (and Gutium)" (one of 4 regions of their world) is Sumerian rendering of Subartu (one of 4 regions). Some of these names appeared to have the same elements/affixes? (spellings might be slightly worng as only from memory since lost):

Sutala, Subartu, Sumeru, Suedin, Sumasti, Suteans/Sutium, Shushan, Su;
Gozan, Goshen, Gutium/Gutian, Guedin, Gu;
Atala, Anshan, Anedina, Ameru, Amurru;
Pamirs, Patala, Bashan; 
Leshan;

Leshan, Bashan, Anshan, Shushan, Goshen, Gozan;
Ameru, Amurru, Sumeru, Meru, Pamirs;
Sutala, Atala, Patala;
Edin, Suedin, Anedina, Guedin;
Sumasti, Mashu;
Subartu, Bharata, Parthia;
Gutium/Gutians, Suteans/Sutium;
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2006 at 00:36

Sharrukin since I never got an answer to my last post(s) in Eden topic and since it ties in here: do you know much about the place/people names Edin (Eridu?),...

The word "edin" (alternately, eden) has the Sumerian meaning of "plain", "steppe", and "grazing land".  Apparently the Sumerians used it as a geographic expresion for parts of the hinterland surrounding the city.  It was used as part of a proper name for very specific pieces of land.

Eridu was the name of the first city after the Flood where "kingship" was sent down.  In reality it seemed to have been the first settlement after the waters receded in Sumer to become a city.  Eridu has the possible meaning of "the good city", although other meanings are possible.

Since both terms "Eridu" and "edin/eden" are mutually distinct terms, neither is possibly related to the other.  However, what does seem to a parallel to the Biblical Eden was the Sumerian concept of "Dilmun" which was described as a paradise where the gods lived and where there was no death or disease and where predatory animals lived alongside their prey.  This concept of "Dilmun" does not necessarily relate to the historic Dilmun, although where it was located (Bahrein), makes it close enough to the Tigris and Euphrates to make it also close to other ancient riverbeds which have long since dried up.

....Suedin,....

I've never encountered it.

....Guedin....

This was a piece of fine real-state (because of its fertility) fought over by two rival city-states in a space of about 100 years.  For most of this period, it seemed that the Lagash*tes had the upper hand, but the Ummaites ultimately got the last laugh. 

....and Anedina?......

No clue.  Sorry. 

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2006 at 22:07
Sharrukin since I never got an answer to my last post(s) in Eden topic and since it ties in here: do you know much about the place/people names Edin (Eridu?), Suedin, Guedin and Anedina? I no longer have any of the scanty notes on them I once had (lost in that crisis).
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2006 at 04:22

What are you then?

An hispanic.  My ancestors were from Mexico.

Yes king of the North is supposed to be Seleucid like king of south supposed to be Ptolemaic, but the[ir] reference was rather to the "people of the prince that is to come" (Dan 9:26), tho perhaps wider I-E instead of Roman.

It would still be talking about the same person.  According to Dan. 11:40 "at the time of the end" the King of the South will attack the King of the North.  Since, up to this point, we know that these were the Ptolemaic and Seleucid kings of Egypt and the Middle East, respectively, the future Northern King must be ruling the Middle East, just as the Assyrians ruled the Middle East.  Hence, "the Assyrian" and Daniel's "King of the North" have a commonality.  Whether it is ethnological is hard to guess.

Quite a compliement been asked "are you Kurdish since you know so much"!, we all respect your amazing mid-east knowledge. (Notice he asked where you stand like I did.) What/why is it about middle eastern history that so appealed/attracted you (no offense just curious and funnily some one once wondered why I was so intersted/enthuisiastic about Sumerian/Babel.)

Perhaps I was being naive, but I didn't get the impression that he was asking for my position.  He merely related to my knowledge.  The possibility exists, but I would like to think that there wasn't more to this than what he wrote.

My interest in middle eastern history actually began with the simplest question.  How old is "history"?  In my basic conception (that of a 12-year-old) I measured "history" by "historical dates".  I had heard that Egypt and Babylonia had the "oldest history", so I began there (and never really left them, since).  This led to being impressed as to how varied civilization was in the Middle East, and not just a dry "line" of names and dates.  The "why" of things became just as important as the "who, what, and when".  Just when I thought I had a handle on the "behavior" and "scheme" of Middle Eastern history, to my utter shock and delight I discovered huge "new" sources of information, and a new appreciation as to how complex the ancient Middle East really was.  The search for more ME data continues.

But after the way you conducted yourself in Aryan origins/theories topics I gained more respect for your knoweldge/methodology (not just because it did not (so far) completely clash with my own theory.)

One of the by-products of my initial question, was "where did peoples come from?".  The question had less to do with the biological origin theories, and more to do with ethno-linguistic origins.  I was immediately intrigued by the idea as to how similar Indo-European languages were despite their great geographical range.  I was not satisfied with general statements and looked for specifics.  The "why" of such complexity was just as important as the "why" of ancient ME history.  Even the "challenges" to the basic theory of IE dispersion were good tools to look into.  How some archaeological cultures seem to match specifics of the "dispersion" is intriguing.  We still lack specifics, and so this continues to be a subject of special interest.  The dynamics of the historically more documented Turkic dispersion has also been a subject of special interest.  It may hold clues to the IE dispersion. 

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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2006 at 17:31
Sharrukin:
Yes king of the North is supposed to be Seleucid like king of south supposed to be Ptolemaic, but the[ir] reference was rather to the "people of the prince that is to come" (Dan 9:26), tho perhaps wider I-E instead of Roman.
Quite a compliement been asked "are you Kurdish since you know so much"!, we all respect your amazing mid-east knowledge. (Notice he asked where you stand like I did.) What/why is it about middle eastern history that so appealed/attracted you (no offense just curious and funnily some one once wondered why I was so intersted/enthuisiastic about Sumerian/Babel.)
But after the way you conducted yourself in Aryan origins/theories topics I gained more respect for your knoweldge/methodology (not just because it did not (so far) completely clash with my own theory.)

Maju:
I have been working on doing histories of every country in world and so far have not-quite-fully finished the Sinai-Turkey-Transcaucasia-Iraq-Saudi Arabia area countries, tho it is extremely slow progress due to internal and external miseries I'm suffering, plus some old info I had not recovered so can't incorporate it (like Hrozny on Subartu, and the fullest Assyrian king-lists before Shamshiadad I). (Often I find studying the history of a country is not really much bearing on the present racial/linguistic picture of a country/region which can be found by looking up racial/linguistic books/maps.) For Assyria there has so far emerged at least 4 parallel histories: the orthodox prehistoric/predynastic -> historic/dynastic one (headed by Zarzian, Zawi Chemi Shanidar, alluvium, tho I believe "pre-historic" overlaps/contemp/parallel with historic/dynastic like perhaps neolithic = feudal), the traditional one (headed by Ninus (king list can be seen in Hoeh's work and Tertullian/Jerome link)), the biblical one (headed by Nimrod), and the Sumerian king list headed by Eridu/Nunki or Kish (tho orthodoxy erroneously lumps all pre-Sargonic ones in early dynastic period).


Edited by Arthur-Robin
NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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